Regarding unlocks

[Summer 180]

There has been a large outcry due to the lack of unlocks in the starhub e-club pug servers, and i have no say/definite reasons why because i'm not a server admin. However, here are my 2c for you guys who are always complaining:

 

- With the Masters being Vanilla + med unlocks only, that's one of the primary reasons why most of the weapons are banned, maybe because it's too much of a hassle to create a specific cfg?

 

- Prevent people from ruining pugs with unlocks. Actually i think this is a bigger reason. To improve, we should take our pickups more seriously though they usually are more dm-oriented, rather than mess about with things like the cow-mangler 5000 (or whatever it's called, but someone please trade me one!!). It's not as if these items are going to be allowed in competitive play as well.

 

- Setting an example for new players. If we want to see an increase in teams that stay around longer and play seriously, we should not be messing around all the time and treating pugs as jokes, because pugs are usually where newbies get their first taste of 6v6.

 

Not saying that i'm siding with the current whitelist, in fact we need items like the pain train and equalizer. After the Masters, the first thing the admins are going to do is work on the new whitelist and we'd like your opinions on what should and shouldn't be allowed.

 

Perhaps you could leave your suggestions in this thread, and feel free to share your thoughts on this issue.

[ding 2]

pyro and heavy 1st gen unlocks.

[LToro 2]

I honestly think vanilla medlocks is okay, just need to add eq and paintrain

 

 

[deliaren 3]

GUNBOATS, EQ

 

^

[ceemie 0]

gunboats, paintrain, equalizer, bonk, med unlocks. that is all.

[ding 2]

what about the scottish resistance? Not OP and well i guess if someone uses it situationally, its not completely useless.

[Flare 0]

none, or vanilla medlock only. equaliser is debatable, gunboats no.

 

the reason in my eyes are simple: asian teams suck too badly at even executing basic teamwork/strategies with basic tools. adding more variation fools teams into thinking there are 'viable tactics' (ie gimmicks) to winning games, when much more ground can be gained simply by practicing good execution and comms to perfection. look at the variation kritz brings already, now instead of working on better execution, newer teams can just attempt to use kritz once in a while to gain an easy round win. but did it take better/more skill to use kritz? nope.

 

example 1: gunboats. the variation gunboats brings to the game is enormous. how to deal with roam getting to mid faster? how to deal with more hp sollys? what about 2 gunboats? can i have 2 sollys bomb the medic and jump right out back to their own medic? how to deal with sollies that dont actually jump to bomb but just jump to bait rockets? how do bl spire and gully 4th mechanics change? teams should not even start to think of these questions until they can execute a normal mid rollout and attack flawlessly.

 

i guess at the end of the day its what you want the community to grow towards. if you want teams to actually progress in skill level, then as close to nothing should be allowed. if you want more F2P players to start going to pug cuz 'its fun' and not have to worry about skill too much, then just allow everything.

[yuko 46]

Asian teams suck at being aggressive. When faced against much more aggro teams they'll just get pushed back and back and back and because they too don't know-how to defend last properly they lose the point. Rinse and repeat 4 more times and it's a gg.

 

Let them try gunboats.

[HaXxorIzed 17]

Just copy the american whitelist.

 

Alternatively medic unlocks, equalizer and paintrain.

 

[jester 3]

What about re-skins.

[Summer 180]

I'm for having medlocks, gunboats, equalizer, and pain train for demo only. Any other thing would change the mechanics of pushing and pulling (Direct hit one shots scouts and counters aggro sollies, sydney sleeper makes people super paranoid...)

 

Before we can start using these "novelty" weapons, we should focus on improving our basics such as communication and gamesense, before we move on to more complex things. Like Flare said, if we want to improve the skill level of the teams in our region, we should keep the unlocks to a bare minimum.

[ding 2]

I guess there is quite a good point in the outright banning of "novelty" items, in terms of raising the skill level and everything.

 

But i think it will be getting a little too stagnant if u insist whatever weapons that "change the mechanics of pushing and pulling" should be banned. Then why don't you ban heavies or snipers? They sure change the mechanics of the pushing and pulling from the standard make up.

 

As of NOW, I am FOR the limitation of many weapons ( medlocks and equalizer and paintrain ) while in pugs, but i think competitions or events should allow for more versatility as long as no imbalance or unfair advantage is given. Correct me if I am wrong, the Banning of unlockable weapons is not to dictate how the game should be played, but just to judge which weapons are "gamebreaking".

 

There are always other ways to insist new players to use standard weapons. For example, when a new player starts to play, the community or other individuals can always encourage (STRONGLY) a player to play vanilla first and foremost, if a new player isnt even willing to do so, do you think he will even enjoy 6v6 playing in the long run? There is a reason for a community.

 

I do realise that this seems to be rather idealistic, so I do realise that what i am saying may not be practical in the asian scene at all. But it would be a better thing to work towards.

---

 

Another thing i noticed. The problem with new teams is rarely them PLAYING AROUND WITH NEW UNLOCKS. Most new teams do respect the traditional 6v6 system, their problems lie in motivation, communication and dedication.

 

[Jared the Hippo 0]

So the agentcy pug servers have allowed some unlocks. Can I ask why pyro unlocks are not allowed? Vanilla pyro is probably the one and only genuinely underpowered class in the game. Is it possible to allow degreaser, flare gun and axtinguisher? Maybe even the detonator, which could mean pyro can get to mid as fast as sollies, and has some spam ability.

[ding 2]

no jared. Pyro is a very powerful class already. Please there is no need for the rest of the unlocks, other than the first generation ones. The flamethrower gives out minicrits like free with reflections. Pyros are never meant to be used as mains in comp style playing only, but only as defensive utilities.

[Jared the Hippo 0]

Hmm oh well I think that's debatable, the popular opinion on the pyro that I've gathered from steam forums is that vanilla pyro is severely underpowered.

 

You say it's a very powerful class because reflects give minicrits, and it's true, while that is a great ability, it relies on an opponent to feed the pyro with projectiles to reflect. Any decent scout will beat a pyro unless badly ambushed, and sollies can switch to shottie and kill pyros easily too, because pyro only moves at normal speed. Flamethrower dps is lower than shotgun's, after all.

[ding 2]

In pugs pyros are really powerful because of the large amount of projectile classes that are being used. Also, like spies, snipers and engineers, pyros are not meant to be a mainstay in pug games. But instead a situational tool. sorry but thats how the culture has evolved and introducing all these new weapons for the pyro will not really gain much traction.