Biotics

To be fair... The vets have been much worse in the past FYI, and im speaking from the perspective of a newbie much earlier before you guys came. And also to be fair Im sur everyone feels angry when the match isnt going ur way but why cant we all be a Saki and just say it nicely? A few pugs back, I think madman was scolding ppl (including me) for losing? If winning is so important den maybe tf2 isnt a game for u tbh... Maybe its not tf2 being a game, but the fact that these people shldnt even be in the server? Like I said before its passworded for a reason, and if you actually had the motivation to learn, why would you let some vet and his stupid squabbling get over you so easily?

This is why Aza is the best

Yes but no one owes these people a living. And why would you ask someone the password to a passworded server, emphasis on PASSWORDED, without knowing what to do. It's like going in to a something unknown completely blindfolded.

About the servers being passworded, I feel that the fault doesnt rely on the new players themselves but the ones who actually GIVE them the password. Having experienced the asia pugging scene shldnt these people actually warn the new players of the possible expectations our elitists might have? Shldnt these people show the new players the ropes first instead of letting them play a pug without any prior knowledge of sorts? Its so hard to just remain calm when you see your teammates dying off one by one without reasoning, as if they are just like in a non-passworded pub going purely for frags which they possibly cant even get due to their sub-par dm at their current stage. So to those new players who seem to get all "walao fuck u asiafortress elitists u all tink u so pw0 teach me first la then i can learn rite" (which seems to be a common attitude among these people), why not learn from those people who actually gave u the password lol. -2 cents here i maybe wrong dont rape me

http://logs.tf/153017 Title and log speaks for itself Voteban and votekick were not enough to stop the wrath of the offclassing. Help please admins, and do something to veterans like the likes of mel as well as the other ppl who offclassed so much here. Thanks and to those who were enjoying offclassing in this pug please have a nice day maintaining ur status as an ass .

Im not complaining about off classing. Im just stating that even though the players themselves in the server disapproved of the offclassing, it still continued as though everyone was ok and fine with it.

So its ok to let those people to get away scot free? Its quite apparent they did NOT offclass for situational purposes.

Edit to Team 3* QJ was also a sub for us

Team Number: 3 Mentor(s): Bran Team Members: Biotics Snowiie Zed Cyra Team Subs: jigglesaur No Shows: frejya was missing in the heats, kaipy throughout entire event

SHOUTOUT to Bran best mentor took time off before each map to go thru what to do

Yep, huge mentions to the subs who took the time off with such short notice to attend this mash and run it smoothly. Will await that writeup Mr. Shounic

Our team had a MIA scout who just ditched the mash without notice. No subs were available either for scout. It was either we picked a sub fast or we spent time actually finding a sub who was of a equal skill level. Furthermore, we didn't even know who our player was lol. I speak for my team and possibly for some others who found better subs than their replacement. Would you rather drag the tournament on or would you rather at least try to beat a better team? Didn't mean to spoil this happy event but learnt to live with it possibly and put yourself in others shoes

Omg for once a prediction write up which does not include "only time will tell", hi cuteman

I think its a conspiracy why me and bran same team

Name: bio Class: Scout Steam Profile Link: http://steamcommunity.com/id/coproduction

Aspencc for carry. But what is exactly wrong with implementing new white lists? If it seriously does turn out bad or shit gets down, isnt just replacing the white list with the old one a simple solution?

You are right that everyone will undoubtedly generalize the impression of the community based on admins. However it will be wrong for people to do so. Just like what you said about judging a book by its cover. Sadly that's what everyone does, so not much can be done about it. I guess this has been some nice debate and opinion sharing of the community lately, insightful and helpful no doubt.

Cool, point taken. Lets take a look shall we? 1. Parents scold children only because of goodwill. Although I had no points about whether admins or veterans have "goodwill", I'll take it. In the first place, like I said, the guides are already here. Take it or leave it. No one is supposed to be nice to you if you don't even have the basic common sense to come here and read about pugs and etiquette in pugs. - Then comes your point about do we actually ask them to read guides. Ok Ow3n, let me paint a nice scenario for you. Everyone is playing their pug. Starting up, this new guy screws up and does some wrong shit. Are YOU going to sacrifice THE OTHER 11 PEOPLE's TIME (including yourself) OR are you going to be nice and say "hey dude, check the guides up, lets all pause and wait for 30 mins till he gets his shit tgt". In the first place, to have someone reading guides on the spot is plain retarded, and is wasting everyone's time. Consider that. It's a pug, not a scrim nor mix. Moving on, Admins kick others without reason usually. Hello look at your example. U base ur judgement of the admins using 1 case. Furthermore, it happens to target only that 1 admin. Your generalizing twice, assuming and blaming the mistake of that sole admin on a sole incident on the admin community. Is that right? Next, yes you can say that respect is a "two-way" thing. But for two people to respect each other, one must give way first right? And you seriously expect the veterans to respect you without knowing who the hell you are? Come on man, maybe if the new people show some respect first, apologise for some of obvious mistakes (does not include skill related stuff), then this respect thing can go "two-way" ***I don't care about your opinion of shounic and cuteman so I'll leave it as that*** However, your point about people in AFL having double standards, not actually charitable, etc. I totally AGREE on that point. But lets be objective about this. Is the WHOLE community like that? Is it really? And can you actually say that you yourself in your life have always been unbiased and impartial. My point here is basically that you can't generalize some people's attitude and label it as the community's fault. Some people here are genuinely kind and nice and really enthusiastic to lend a helping hand. And you can't blame some for having double standards sometimes. It happens, people make mistakes (although it happens too often -.-) So I'll leave you that to rebut argue shit about etc.

Look at this from another perspective. If you continuously make mistakes, do you expect your parents to continuously forgive you and act like nothing went wrong. Usually it would be a warning followed by a scolding am I right? Where does the warning apply? The admins almost always give out warnings to fellow puggers before executing their kungfu kicks. They also explain what these perpetrators of the rules have done wrong. Secondly, you might argue that these people might be new blah blah and hence should not be scolded / flamed etc. look for yourself at this very website. It covers every single thing that a new player needs to know to avoid getting shit uponed. If you do get flamed, with all these guides to pugs and stuff, your loss and your own fault. P.S these "flames" and "shit uponed" I'm taking about purely refers to flaming due to reasons outside of in game skills and such. I am too against people scolding others for their bad gameplay. But then again, how do these people even get here o.O

Insensitivity to new players: For sure definitely there has been so many cases of new players getting flamed or scolded just because their new. But hey that's how the author of this topic even rose up in the beginning right? Even I have been flamed and bitched about before but right now I'm at least a legitimate div 2 player. Everyone has to learn to suck it up and learn from the basics. If we did it, why can't they? Just because we can doesn't mean we should be all kind to them should we? If they had read the guides and all, I really doubt new players will get flamed upon, not all the time it is about DM but mostly regarding common sense and game etiquette (e.g voting map before map is over) Redundant topics: Look for yourself. It's in the "General Discussion" is it not? And you say that it steals the spotlight of other useful topics. Aren't those useful topics in the "Guide and Mentoring" section? How then is this topic stealing the spotlight? Isn't a "General Discussion" section supposed to be a section for people to freely voice their thoughts? HUGE suck ups: I have no idea what you mean so I'll leave this as that.

Now we can know why an old veteran like you would have such a negative impression on the community?

if you read on you will see that he is just trying to help the community out. Definitely not boasting about himself. It seems you have a negative impression about some of the people in this community, heretotroll, I wonder why? Or should I say, I wonder why ch3rry?

I speak from my own personal opinion so please dont screw my post up with rebuttals and such its just merely a personal opinion. I for one agree that pugs should not have too much off classing and off classing is generally not acceptable. Sure some might say that off classing improves the class used but then again we should do that in our own fixed teams as someone else said (forgot who). In addition, if we generalize this and put things from a spectators point of logical reasoning. Veteran puggers -> experienced -> MOST LIKELY have teams themselves or already have learnt how to decently offclass. The subject now is that what EXACTLY is the purpose of these pugs. Some might say its for new people to learn while others is for veterans to practice and upgrade themselves. However look at it in this case. If veterans are experienced and not new to the scene they should have the connections and skills to make and form a team themselves to scrim and practice these offclasses. Pugs should theoretically (and backed up with the current influx) have more new people. These new people dont necessarily know off classing and its subjectiveness in this community, and thus could possibly run it full time or not at all even when they should be. However since these people are new, they should (and i believe most would agree) learn the cookie cutter classes first, hence off classing should be done to a minimum (whether or not ur new or a veteran) so that the pugs can be a place for new people who DONT USUALLY have the connections to make a team, try out these standard classes. For the veterans, if you really want to offclass, get a scramble or something and do it, dont deprive the possible opportunity of new people getting the wrong idea and picking up the idea of running full time sniper instead of scout. Sure then again rebuttals galore, and some might argue that a spy can be as efficient as a scout. Sure, I agree, after all this is a FPS game right? But the fact is these classes have been proven to be at least easier to learn up and the understanding of the basics of these classes are vital (or at least most likely) to learn how to properly play 6s. TL;DR of above; if you really like offclassing, and your a veteran, get a team or mix. Dont let ur offclassing disrupt other possible new players in a Pug which are genuinely trying to learn the basics from scratch or are trying to improve. if you like offclassing and ur new, the pubs are honestly a better place to practice. Secondly, regarding the admins and how off classing can be enforced. We all MUST know there is NO, AND NEVER WILL BE, A PERFECT SOLUTION. What it all boils down in the end is a conscious of heart. For example, lately with all these 'double standards" and "admins kungfu kicking people" requires responsibility does it not? Furthermore, with offclassing being honestly very subjective, there really can never be a perfect solution. in my opinion the best solution is the votekick option. Its there for a reason, if your team mate offclassing like retart then click the dam button la edeot, dont whine and bitch and in the end do nothing. TL;DR of second part; No perfect solution for enforcing rules, in my opinion at least, it takes the attitude of admins and people in the pug to properly enforce "rules" if you want to put it that way. P.S I AM OFFERING JUST MY 2 CENTS DONT EYE RAPE ME WITH YOUR REBUTTALS AND "WHY U NOT ANSWERING MY QUESTION" GO SCREW URSELF IF U CAN EVEN READ THIS.

Azazel natural debater. Expected no less from the tongue tornado. But it is true, so many double standards. U have spammah who has nicely voiced his personal opinion that he doesn't mind valid off classing, while you have nata who is just simply against it majority of the time. So who is exactly right? New comers and even some of the current puggers don't even know, get confused, get paranoid, feel unsafe, blah blah blah like Aza said, and eventually no one benefits. And btw Aza, responsible admins do not exist in this world. Or at least they are so rare that you just can't find many anymore. P.S sorry bob

I think you may have gotten me wrong spammah. I myself have nothing against off classing. Why not? Even if your running sniper to mid, if your middles are not working out with standard cookie cutter classes then it is a valid thing to do. My point is that having admins in the lower division will most certainly be helpful when the pugs are only just filled with the new ones. However, my view is that currently it's common to see heavy, pyro, and spy in these pugs, sometimes even with 4/6 of players in a team off classing. Just gives me the impressions that they treat this as a pub server, and thus can't be trusted with any admin rights to help guide the new ones.