Shounic

so.... when does solo sniper who does his own thing need communication? What if he can hold down a flank on his own, how much communication does that take? What if he doesn't even listen when teams want to push up? what if it's better that way? LOL. Come up with a better analogy then. The point of making rules is to DETER people from doing it right? So...... people did it anyways. the rule failed. Some had consequences brought upon them, some didn't. Regardless, we're talking about off-classing so why talk about something else? Re-write it to be more relevant.

Show me how we've made any breakthrough? So assume we take your idea, how have we come up with a solution to "STOPPING UNNECESSARY OFFCLASSING IN AF SERVERS"? I'm pointing how idiotically you've been trying to argue why playing another class could be bad and the argument would literally never end because both sides are true to an extent. k1 can just keep talking about how we should be able to deal with offclassing in pugs, and you would try and suggest how sticking to the main 4 is the best way to play tf2. How has this helped find a solution to the problem?? "oh playing a class other than the main 4 is bad, and here's why." okay....... but what did that fix? lol FYI >>>>>> Summer agreed with k1, and the only real issue was how pug teams probably won't know what to do about offclassing, but you already saw k1's response to that.. then pinkie just says he thinks experimenting in pugs is dumb, okay. but what if the person isn't experimenting and is confident in his own offclassing abilities to carry the team? But then you make another dumb blanket statement about how offclassing can hurt more than benefit. well it also can benefit more than hurt. lelelleellelelel great discussion at hand.

hi. 1. a solution is "a means of solving a problem or dealing with a difficult situation." So dealing with the problem by ignoring doesn't fit? lol 2. by simply just settling for kicking people doesn't that simplify the problem and would cost less than thinking of new rules? What kind of rules will you impose if you were given the power then? 3. your analogy don't have the same impact.... This is just a video game, 99% of the time it won't actually significantly impact you. Let's compare stealing to off-classing. stealing is enforced today, because -> stealing sucks. And most of the time, people who do steal, will steal something (or multiple things) that in total are valued highly. if you are the victim you MAY be seriously affected by it in some way. For example, you might lose your job, you may get paid less. comprender?????? -> people have ESTABLISHED that the majority dislike stealing. so ALL forms of stealing is unacceptable. off-classing doesn't really apply because -> yes it sucks, but it's an issue you can brush off. So the worse it can ever get, a worst-case scenario is one where literally everyone is off-classing except you right? How does this even BEGIN to compare with things that COULD happen as a result of off-classing? Are you really going to kill yourself because pugs are ruined? (Please do). Most of the time people come to the forums to bitch about it. Acordar? -> We have no even established what the majority want from pugs, and off-classing as a result of that. I'm not asking you to try and reason what the answer may be. I'm asking not you specifically, but for the community to make a decision together so WE CAN ACTUALLY COME TO A REASONABLE CONCLUSION. It's no use guessing what the community wants, acordar??????? comprender??????????????????????????????????????

1. Point out to me: at what point have you told me and proven to me how my opinion of how to handle the situation is 100% invalid. 2. You have not even addressed the problem; all you did was say how silly it could be then go on about my own spelling mistake. You've also demonstrated no understanding in why I even mention the difficulty in coming to a conclusion. No matter what you say, you still haven't fixed the problem because how will you actually enforce it? There's difficulty in that for one, but the main point is that nobodyy who is in position to actually change anything on the servers have said much, thus making the debate quite endless. There are so Many undefined variables too. 3. Assumption e.g: (paraphrased) "a soldier is better than the sniper in x situation". Why are you so sure? There are so many situations where either could have been just effective as the other too. 4. Have there even been an example of where a new player thought it was 100% okay to offclass a lot after seeing someone else do it and he then proceeded to do the same?

The reason I've stopped arguing is because there's so many assumptions that you're not even proving my points wrong but just throwing more assumptions into the argument. That's why before you post more images I suggest we establish what we can all unanimously agree (or close to that) what we expect and require out of pugs. There's different ways to approach the problem that you can't necessarily confidently say which one is superior or not. They're different ways to fix the problem, but the fact that everyone plays pugs for different reasons makes it pretty much impossible to come to a conclusion, plus the fact that nobody with real power has stepped in so it doesn't even matter who won in the internet slap fight, I doubt you will even take action nor significantly influence anything.

Honestly the issue is that everyone has different expectations out of pugs. Nobody's right or wrong but in the end we should just settle this by asking the highest of power how he wants pugs to run. Hcaz?

walao summer when you have gene on your team how can you concentrate? "ORDLOR-ORDLOR-ORDLOR-ORDLOR-ORDLOR-ORDLOR"

we're getting to the point where we're arguing about semantics and word choice.... When you mention NK and Africa that doesn't really make sense as a comparison. The issue we're talking about is "whether or not we should try even harder to fix needless off-classing" yes? From my observation, other than SUD, there isn't much needless off-classing anymore. Maybe I'm not playing pugs enough, but it doesn't seem to happen in a case other than SUD. K1 and MEL I've noticed sometimes does that too. So 3 cases. When you compare it to an issue like hunger.... The same logic doesn't really apply does it? My point was that "trying to enforce no needless off-classing is going to be too much trouble for such little gain, you'll probably annoying people who are playing properly if you set really really strict rules and in the end you can't really win, the admins don't really have much other way of dealing with it other than just banning the person / kick." So when I mention mokee, it's simply to juxtaposition two common options people consider. When you want to pug, assuming ceteris paris, one of the first things that will probably influence your decision is the player quality. Generally AF has better quality of players, yes? And generally, Mokee's has lesser quality of players, yes? Well then, assuming off-classing is one of the criterias you use to judge player quality, it's probably true that mokee's pugs will have more needless off-classing, right? I haven't played in mokee recently so I'm just going off what people have established, but assuming that's also true.... Let's look at it again. AF, has relatively less cases of needless off-classing, right? Plus, the three cases I've mentioned, all three of them are above average snipers. So even if needless off-classing happens, it's potentially less of a problem, yes? This is the basis of my point; since most players actually don't needlessly off-class, why bother trying to enforce and create strict rules just to put off these three people? This goes back to "it's probably going to get in the way of things anyways so what's the point?". To put it simply, the fruits of the labor don't seem to cover the cost of the labor, plus the issue doesn't happen often, so you could probably ignore it. let's try use the same sort of logic on a subject like starvation(?). I am not even sure what could be wrong with feeding more people. It could be bad, it could be good. Plus, it's not really something you can ignore. As the government / whatever other position of power above the government, it is your job to ensure everyone is fed, and that's a basic right to life... These people are also getting paid to put in that effort. So you're trying to say that AF, a free service, should also put in as much effort to make sure pugs are good? There's also no point picking at the fact I used the word undecided. The point is that tf2 as an e-sports hasn't been around for as long as something like counter-strike. CS you can say with some confidence that the meta-game will probably never change again. TF2, not so much, yes?

屌你 how is this wrong

hi, it's simple. I'm trying to say that, basically it's going to take too much effort to be worth trying to fix a problem like this. It's already a lot better to settle for the current quality of "most of us actually try to do well and contribute to the team in a pug" with occasional people who don't care. When you compare AF to mokee you wonder why you should still complain. then here's where you tripped: I mentioned the meta-game because our judgement of what's right and wrong is purely based around a meta, except even the meta is undecided, so how do we know for sure what's right and wrong to do? But fair enough, the community is indeed starting to favor and stagnate at a certain meta for now.

why is that even our problem honestly? If I will play sniper no matter what and there are no admins around what can you do about it? You want us to enforce rules that can annoy people who play "normally" just to make it harder for someone to be an asshole? Here's the solution: Treat pugs like pugs. Even in NA I promise you there is probably some asshole who will offclass like a nigger. The only real issue I see is how people are so rigid about the meta-game. How do you have the authority to teach people how to play the game even when someone like Pyyyyyyour or Platinum have no answer? The truth is that the way we play works in the current meta-game but you shouldn't be surprised in the future when snipers are so good that one is ran 24/7, how can you blame sud anymore?

there's a lot of players in both 6's and HL. English is pretty much the main language in Asia anyways, so you'll be okay. Even a lot of us HK people at least speak broken english Don't worry, when you pug and meet more people, you will find that there are a lot of new players like you who want to form a team.

Studies show that when HL4 comes out the break ends.

They don't die they're just taking a break from life, it's so stressful.

nope you don't need a server. You could always just hop onto the hsp.hk highlander server or something. I ran two teams in Highlander UGC and for a while we just used the public ugc servers lying around. Asia Fortress does have easier access to STV's through a website Natapon set up (Asiafortress Servers) , but I'm sure other servers also record them, as long as you ask the right admins. You should keep in mind that AFA is focused on 6's. HL is not something that most of us play, but I personally have some experience in it. To be perfectly honest though, most of the better HL players are from Korea and Japan, so it's hard to communicate with them and our meta game is still quite undeveloped.

What a crazy competition it has been so far, and we’ve only just finished up the semi-finals. Here’s a quick wrap up of what’s been happening lately to bring you some hype for the grand finals! Starting off with Division 3. We’ve seen PayChannel and DespicableUs battle it out. PayChannel steamrolled with a 5 - 0 score on Granary, and a 7 - 2 victory on Badlands. l8r nerds and Azure Celista fought a closer, more intense game. Azure Celista secured a 1 - 6 in a valiant match on Granary, but l8r nerds actually brought it back for Badlands with a score of 7-3. The tie breaking Ashville turned out in Azure Celista’s favor with a scoreline of 4 - 1. Better luck later (l8r), nerds! The Japanese PayChannel and Korean team Azure Celista will be fighting tooth and nail for victory in the finals – who will prevail and emerge the top Div 3 team? Next up on the list we have our Division 2 teams. Our semi-finalists were TSP vs Team InAdequacy and Color Gaming vs. A Clockwork Enigma. The strategies of Clockwork Enigma weren’t so much of an enigma after all; easily unpicked by Color Gaming, the team saw a somewhat predictable loss of 5 - 0 to Color on Badlands and 6 - 1 on Granary. Nevertheless, considering the dearth of experience in their players, they put up a commendable fight indeed. TSP and Team InAdequacy put up a good show. Both teams have humble beginnings in Divsion 3, and InA’s previous life as Team EXE saw them clinching 4th place in Division 3. Scaling the steep skill and strategy curves, both teams meet again at a whole new level of gameplay, holding top spots in Divsion 2. Despite InA defeating TSP during the regular season, TSP has been sweating their little butts off. They brought a roaring victory of 5 - 0 in Badlands, and won 4 -3 in Granary yet again, albeit with a more suspenseful match. TSP has really surpassed most people’s expectations but now the question is, is this enough to beat Colour Gaming? And finally who could forget, our dearest Divsion 1. If you didn’t catch it, make sure to catch a record of the LIVE broadcast on the TEAMFORTRESS.TV stream, casted by Admirable and Yuki! VOD’s are already up on www.youtube.com/teamfortresstv and you can catch up on the action there. The matches were played between For Freak’s Sake vs. Muk Eun Ji and Kuso Scout vs. Lust Lust Lust. FFS had a good run against MEJ, but alas it ended in a 5-0 Badlands and Granary roll, in favor of MEJ. That’s not to say nobody cheered for FFS, though. Being a relatively new team playing against what the pros consider to be the cream of the crop in the Asian TF2 gaming scene, it was a good game – as the Soldier says, “Every one of you deserves a medal!” Good effort FFS! The second match between Kuso Scout and Lust Lust Lust (pity the casters on this tongue-twister) was definitely more exciting. A close game on Badlands turned out 5 - 3 in favor of Kuso Scout, but if you were there with us on the live stream you can testify – that game certainly was close! Rounds were traded relentlessly back and forth, but Kuso Scout managed to pull through and emerge victorious. Granary was a bit less of a nail biter as Natapon claimed that “they’ve shaken off the rust and gotten a hang of the Kuso Scout style again”. The game ended in a 6 - 1 to Kuso Scout, but you really have to congratulate Lust Lust Lust and FFS for coming so far. There were a lot of tough opponents along the way; big shoutout especially to Team Kill Friendly Fire who I personally expected to be in the semi-finals. It wasn’t easy; respect to them for doing so well! Don’t tune out just yet though, we’re still yet to witness the EPIC conclusion to AFC 7. Kuso Scout vs. Muk Eun Ji – definitely a battle to watch out for. Will the Korean super team – seasoned, dynamic and complex as old kimchi, emerge at the top? Will the Kuso Scout scouts be enough to pull the rug out from under MEJ? There’s also Color Gaming vs. The Systematic People to look out for; will the Japanese team that has stuck together around for so long beat the first and only HK team in the finals? Which country will reign supreme? And who can forget PayChannel vs Azure Celista? Our Div 3 teams don’t deserve any less attention. Who are the hopefuls that will move onto division 2 next season? The Japanese or the Koreans? All the months of hard work have been distilled to three final matches between the most resilient teams. Only one question is left on the tip of all our tongues – WHO’S GOING TO WIN?!

What a crazy competition it has been so far, and we’ve only just finished up the semi-finals. Here’s a quick wrap up of what’s been happening lately to bring you some hype for the grand finals! Starting off with Division 3. We’ve seen PayChannel and DespicableUs battle it out. PayChannel steamrolled with a 5 - 0 score on Granary, and a 7 - 2 victory on Badlands. l8r nerds and Azure Celista fought a closer, more intense game. Azure Celista secured a 1 - 6 in a valiant match on Granary, but l8r nerds actually brought it back for Badlands with a score of 7-3. The tie breaking Ashville turned out in Azure Celista’s favor with a scoreline of 4 - 1. Better luck later (l8r), nerds! The Japanese PayChannel and Korean team Azure Celista will be fighting tooth and nail for victory in the finals – who will prevail and emerge the top Div 3 team? Next up on the list we have our Division 2 teams. Our semi-finalists were TSP vs Team InAdequacy and Color Gaming vs. A Clockwork Enigma. The strategies of Clockwork Enigma weren’t so much of an enigma after all; easily unpicked by Color Gaming, the team saw a somewhat predictable loss of 5 - 0 to Color on Badlands and 6 - 1 on Granary. Nevertheless, considering the dearth of experience in their players, they put up a commendable fight indeed. TSP and Team InAdequacy put up a good show. Both teams have humble beginnings in Divsion 3, and InA’s previous life as Team EXE saw them clinching 4th place in Division 3. Scaling the steep skill and strategy curves, both teams meet again at a whole new level of gameplay, holding top spots in Divsion 2. Despite InA defeating TSP during the regular season, TSP has been sweating their little butts off. They brought a roaring victory of 5 - 0 in Badlands, and won 4 -3 in Granary yet again, albeit with a more suspenseful match. TSP has really surpassed most people’s expectations but now the question is, is this enough to beat Colour Gaming? And finally who could forget, our dearest Divsion 1. If you didn’t catch it, make sure to catch a record of the LIVE broadcast on the TEAMFORTRESS.TV stream, casted by Admirable and Yuki! VOD’s are already up on www.youtube.com/teamfortresstv and you can catch up on the action there. The matches were played between For Freak’s Sake vs. Muk Eun Ji and Kuso Scout vs. Lust Lust Lust. FFS had a good run against MEJ, but alas it ended in a 5-0 Badlands and Granary roll, in favor of MEJ. That’s not to say nobody cheered for FFS, though. Being a relatively new team playing against what the pros consider to be the cream of the crop in the Asian TF2 gaming scene, it was a good game – as the Soldier says, “Every one of you deserves a medal!” Good effort FFS! The second match between Kuso Scout and Lust Lust Lust (pity the casters on this tongue-twister) was definitely more exciting. A close game on Badlands turned out 5 - 3 in favor of Kuso Scout, but if you were there with us on the live stream you can testify – that game certainly was close! Rounds were traded relentlessly back and forth, but Kuso Scout managed to pull through and emerge victorious. Granary was a bit less of a nail biter as Natapon claimed that “they’ve shaken off the rust and gotten a hang of the Kuso Scout style again”. The game ended in a 6 - 1 to Kuso Scout, but you really have to congratulate Lust Lust Lust and FFS for coming so far. There were a lot of tough opponents along the way; big shoutout especially to Team Kill Friendly Fire who I personally expected to be in the semi-finals. It wasn’t easy; respect to them for doing so well! Don’t tune out just yet though, we’re still yet to witness the EPIC conclusion to AFC 7. Kuso Scout vs. Muk Eun Ji – definitely a battle to watch out for. Will the Korean super team – seasoned, dynamic and complex as old kimchi, emerge at the top? Will the Kuso Scout scouts be enough to pull the rug out from under MEJ? There’s also Color Gaming vs. The Systematic People to look out for; will the Japanese team that has stuck together around for so long beat the first and only HK team in the finals? Which country will reign supreme? And who can forget PayChannel vs Azure Celista? Our Div 3 teams don’t deserve any less attention. Who are the hopefuls that will move onto division 2 next season? The Japanese or the Koreans? All the months of hard work have been distilled to three final matches between the most resilient teams. Only one question is left on the tip of all our tongues – WHO’S GOING TO WIN?! Click here to view the article

how does hazilla expect people on the internet to be nice to him AND he's not even nice to other people

gg

in summary, his attitude is such: If he wins in mge, then whatever he did to win is okay if he loses, whatever the guy did to win is gay how about you stop being so butthurt and deflate that ego yo.

gg

Badlands played on HSP.HK: 113.252.206.125:27050 Granary played on AF HK: 112.118.173.72:27016

have you considered that perhaps.... we don't know maybe?

LOL that's a bit ironic coming from you Justin

streamed on teamfortress.tv twitch!