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Shounic

[AFC8] Missing Demo Submissions

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jw8zzSP.png
 
Hello again from the dictatorship Admin running AFC8! What's that? You want to hear the good news? Sure thing!
 
Here is our record of POV demos. Teams who are not responsible in submitting all the required demos WILL be completely disqualified.

Div 1
Hobos:

  • Clear
  • 4 demos submitted [bio / js / astro / clover / hedwig]
  • 1 demo submitted [js]

KIN:

  • Clear
  • 4 demos submitted [babel / flower / forcedge / saitama]
  • 2 demos submitted [creep / flower]

dmm: 0 demos submitted for every round
GLM:0 demos submitted for every round
MVP:

  • Clear
  • 1 demo submitted [Z]
  • 4 demo submitted [teejay / rufus / z / halu]

HBZB: 2 demos submitted [DIBO & Sand] on round 1, no demos on other rounds
BABYCRY: 0 demos submitted for every round

Div 2
t9k: 0 demos submitted except for 26 and kcot ON round 2
ezworking: 1 demos submitted [cyop], no demos on other rounds
EST: round 1 - 0 demos submitted, round 2 and 3 demos submitted [soap / dub / basher / jaguar (missing round 3) / fitz ]
MAG:

  • 5 demos submitted [oyasai / OKAKA / 11 / eru / EoLA]
  • Clear
  • 1 demo submitted [meltes]

CASUALS: Lexxy 0 demos submitted
TEK:

  • 3 demos submitted [tricky / dhiva / floaty]
  • 2 demos submitted [ tricky / winstone]
  • 2 demos submitted [chiva / regal]

PM: 0 demos submitted for every round

Div 3
FALLBACK: 1 demo submitted [dream] week 1 and 2
CH:

  • 0 demos submitted
  • 3 demos submitted [ayamy / dot / m4jor]
  • 1 demo submitted [tusik76]

WEEBOOS:

  • 4 demos submitted [Hirasagi / slayer / lockv / nagy]
  • 1 demo submitted [lockv]
  • no demos submitted

Chess:  Completely Clear - 1 Key will be awarded for compliance if round3 demos are uploaded.
OCD: 0 demos submitted for every round
PUGS: 0 demos submitted except Amphetamine and NSB (Round1 Only)
FCWH: 0 demos submitted except round 1 (cknach and oro)

 

Every team leader is responsible for the missing demos and will be penalized for lack of compliance.

 

What happens if I don't have the demos...?

 

All and every missing demo must be justified for by the team leader. Leniency granted by me is an acceptable justification.  To clarify: Team leaders must >AT LEAST

 

Deadline is Saturday, 27th of September. Do not resolve >ANY



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PM: 0 demos submitted for every round

 

I had to reformat my PC so mostly everything is gone now from my hard drive.

 

Cell and Christmas both uses Mac and with the heat of the competition they forgot to manually record their demos.

 

Killer's PC died. He's using a laptop now.

 

Striker is currently at campus. He can't really get on his pc during the weekdays.

 

Dom didn't manually record the 3rd round match because he uninstalled PREC and with the much delay during the 3rd match we just hurried up and ready the match.

 

Fishee just uninstalled his game due to exams. He deleted all his files from his TF2 folder.

 

Faruko will upload his POV demo in abit

 

 

EDIT: 

 

why is POV demo upload is a MUST again?

 

"4D. Demo Recording and Match Screenshots
It is the home team's responsibility to arrange for a recording STV to be present for their match. If one cannot be arranged or the STV does not record, one player from the home team MUST be able to provide a POV demo (we recommend using P-REC). OS X and Linux users must record their demos manually. Demos must be uploaded and published no later than 1 week after the match date. Screen-shots of in-game scoreboard must be taken and posted in the match threads.
 
Any team not submitting either an STV or POV demo within 1 week of the match will be penalised 1 Match point. (Teams new to AFC may receive 1 warning before penalties will arise)
 
All players must be able to provide a POV demo should a dispute arise. Failure to do so may result in penalties."

 

I understand if your too lazy to write the whole article for rules again, but please make sure you edit them right.

 

Maybe it is an AsiaFortress tradition that every player uploads their POV demos to the admin and i respect that tradition don't get me wrong but please it's not that everyone is into looking at their frags or reviewing their own demos of the matches etc. Maybe you guys should just change this rule for a change.

 

Technically every match is on the AsiaFortress's servers and the STV is already automatically uploaded. If u want the leader of the home team to actually find the STV and upload them then please do say so. 

 

In my opinion, which will not matter anyways, is that EVERY players should record a demo of the match and keep it till at least 2 weeks after the tournament ends but it SHOULDN'T BE COMPULSORY to upload them after every map. The demos that are recorded are to be kept should there be any dispute arise and the accused should present the demo to an anti-cheat team (which i'm not sure if u guys have) or admin. 

Edited by reaper

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We're not going to go through all the trouble of waiting for players to upload things when there are hassles and people not responding. There are issues in using STV demos to check for player dishonesty and future AsiaFortress Tournament systems will also require POV demos. We've started doing this as a result of hackers from previous competitions causing many problems that we cannot efficiently solve. While it may be of little annoyance for everyone to record and upload, we're only doing this to avoid bigger troubles later on. If you feel this reason is unacceptable I welcome you to inquire further. 

 

Our rules are non-specific as we've generalized them for a particular cup this season. In your match threads it also specifically states that all players must record a POV demo. 

 

I will grant striker an exception. I will not accept formatting hard drives as an excuse from your team anymore from this point forward, the same applies to Cell and Christmas for not recording. 

 

 

------ Hall of Shame (for not reading the entire post) -------------

 

Tuesday, 23 September, 2014

2:45 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: hey shounic, I submitted my demos under the name alucard, i thought that was the name i was registered under. I can resubmit them under cowii if neccesary

 

 

Tuesday, 23 September, 2014

1:10 PM - oyasai: hi
1:10 PM - oyasai: I looked [AFC8] Missing Demo Submissions.
1:11 PM - oyasai: we played 2games. Rounds3 isn't game.
1:11 PM - oyasai: It wrote 「Round1 is 5demos submitted」
1:12 PM - oyasai: last demo is Meltes.
1:12 PM - oyasai: but Meltes submitted Round1 pov
1:12 PM - oyasai: Name is 「Mag_Meltes_CASUALS.zip」
1:13 PM - oyasai: plz tell me if you are something.

 

[i have replied on steam to the people above. Penalties will be considered for your respective teams.]

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Don't know if it's a hassle but could you or some other admin update this list again is a few days just before the deadline?

 

All team leaders are expected to post a statement about who has uploaded, who hasn't, and why. I will NOT  be checking the upload page unless asked to do so.

 

At your request I am happy to provide an updated list tomorrow afternoon.

 

Edit: Strike 2

--------- Hall of Shame ----------------

 

6:58 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: ok lets just do this all at once

6:58 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: the round 2 things that my team submitted
6:58 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: they mean round 3
6:58 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: ill get them to resubmit if possible
6:58 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: round 1
6:58 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: jacci was in it, so his name was registered as sim
6:58 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: all mine will be resubmitted under the name cowii
6:58 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: ill try to get train's demo
6:59 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: sakiisa just submitted his round 3 demo
6:59 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: that would make the 6
6:59 PM - ᴛᴇᴋ* two friends: thanks :)
 
Updated last sentence in light of some people's reading comprehension. 

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We're not going to go through all the trouble of waiting for players to upload things when there are hassles and people not responding. There are issues in using STV demos to check for player dishonesty and future AsiaFortress Tournament systems will also require POV demos. We've started doing this as a result of hackers from previous competitions causing many problems that we cannot efficiently solve. While it may be of little annoyance for everyone to record and upload, we're only doing this to avoid bigger troubles later on. If you feel this reason is unacceptable I welcome you to inquire further. 

 

Our rules are non-specific as we've generalized them for a particular cup this season. In your match threads it also specifically states that all players must record a POV demo. 

 

I will grant striker an exception. I will not accept formatting hard drives as an excuse from your team anymore from this point forward, the same applies to Cell and Christmas for not recording. 

 

 

------ Hall of Shame (for not reading the entire post) -------------

 

 

[i have replied on steam to the people above. Penalties will be considered for your respective teams.]

 

1. Yes, i do agree with the statement of STV demos have issues and it's better with a POV demo so if you ONLY require the POV demo then fix your general demos rules. I understand you say that your rules are mostly generalize but it can be misleading especially when you have it posted on our general rules and also made a specific thread about it. Please do edit those for future references as it may lead to misleading ideas. Your rules say something and your match thread says something else. Please have one general rule and stick with it instead of saying one thing and doing something else another.

 

2. Ok, i guess it's acceptable to say that you guys are trying to do something like "prepare an umbrella before it rains" sort of saying but is it really fair to impose such heavy penalty to an already dying league and community? Yes it's a tournament with it comes fierce competition there will be accusations thrown around and everything but what if there aren't any accusations been made? What if every match been played was actually full on legit and had nothing to be complained about? Is it fair to the the players especially the new fresh faces we see this season to impose such heavy penalty? So your going to ban new captains from forever playing anymore in AsiaFortress and eventually kill their passion for competitive TF2? Back to my point. I understand you guys can't EFFICIENTLY solve previous problems with hack accusations etc but other TF2 leagues have seem to be running just ok with responding with these accusations etc. and they didn't have to resolve to these sort of demo submission compulsory rule.

 

3. I respect and understand your organization trying to follow Asiafortress's foundation that it was built on but please it's ok to try to imply a few changes. All i'm saying is that you should listen to the community not do everything what you guys want.

 

To be honest i don't mind being banned from future Asiafortress's tournaments if anything but i don't want you to be really harsh to the newer players who have finally come out of the dark and try to step up their game and try something out and have the competitive experience. All i'm saying it's either drop this rule (Maybe u can't since it's already quater the season so drop it for the future seasons) or be more linear about the penalty being imposed. Again, like i said i don't care what happens to me, i'm saying this for the others.

 

 

P/S: respectfully suggesting, you could have just say something in this thread maybe highlight it again that leader's shouldn't contact you through steam chat instead of posting the likes of wall of shame. It shows the level of professionalism your showing to the community. Respect the community as you want them to respect you.

 

Regards.

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13 September 2014

22:53 - ♛rfs: hey shounic

22:53 - shounic: hi

22:54 - ♛rfs: cos of the p-rec issue

22:54 - ♛rfs: we forgot to record

22:54 - shounic: =.=

23:02 - ♛rfs: so how?

23:02 - shounic: i won't dq, but I'll punish for the next time again

 

Please excuse MVP for the missing demos for Round 2.

 

Round 3 demo issues are being sorted out.

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13 September 2014
22:53 - ♛rfs: hey shounic
22:53 - shounic: hi
22:54 - ♛rfs: cos of the p-rec issue
22:54 - ♛rfs: we forgot to record
22:54 - shounic: =.=
23:02 - ♛rfs: so how?
23:02 - shounic: i won't dq, but I'll punish for the next time again
 
Please excuse MVP for the missing demos for Round 2.
 
Round 3 demo issues are being sorted out.

 

 

nice double standards

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too long

 

To make it clear, my response is not a avoidance or deflection of criticism. I will revisit the demo rules after this week's round.

 

I have not 'imposed heavy penalty' upon anyone. I mention it because in the extreme circumstances I would do that. I haven't put a single penalty on your team despite there being close to zero demos that have actually been recorded. 

 

If you want to continue this debate post in the AFC8 Question thread.

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I agree you have not impose any of the heavy penalty yet and your getting people's attention to upload their demos, but you could have approach this matter in a more appropriate and subtle manner such as just say that a team will be minus out points at first and then if still no teams responded then you could go for more drastic measures. You did mention in your general that team will be minus out points at first what happen to that? Without fair warning you want to hit the nail with a sledgehammer? Where's the friendly reminder? If the community have vexed you with their complacency, then approach them in a timid manner first then go for a more harsher approach if no one responded.

 

If u want to DQ my team from the tournament by all means go right ahead. We got nothing to lose for anyways. If u want to ban someone just ban me. I wouldn't care less. And ok i will post in the AFC8 Question thread even-tho we are in the topic of the demos recordings.

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nice double standards

 

This isn't double standards, I've given every team the same amount of leniency. 

 

If you're complaining about the way I've worded a post then I have no further comment. I don't put any emotion into factual posts such as these and I'm simply presenting what the problem is as black and white as it gets. 

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This isn't double standards, I've given every team the same amount of leniency. 

 

If you're complaining about the way I've worded a post then I have no further comment. I don't put any emotion into factual posts such as these and I'm simply presenting what the problem is as black and white as it gets. 

 

So rufus can talk to you in Steam about this problem and the other's can't? You respond to Rufus and not cowii and oyasaii? If u did respond to them then please post that too to show at least you have a heart.

 

Oh sorry, i tend to forget how immature u can get when coming with post and totally disregard any professionalism as an admin. Sorry i will bare that in mind before ranting on the forums

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So rufus can talk to you in Steam about this problem and the other's can't? You respond to Rufus and not cowii and oyasaii? If u did respond to them then please post that too to show at least you have a heart.

 

Oh sorry, i tend to forget how immature u can get when coming with post and totally disregard any professionalism as an admin. Sorry i will bare that in mind before ranting on the forums

 

The first line of the chat says September 13th. The things mentioned in this post only apply to this isolated incident. If people ask me question about anything before this post I would have also replied to them. I'm only requesting people post only on the forums in this demo reminder thread because I need help keeping track of what demos have been uploaded so that I can double check it's on our FTP server, and I can make sure our internal spreadsheet is correct.

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The first line of the chat says September 13th. The things mentioned in this post only apply to this isolated incident. If people ask me question about anything before this post I would have also replied to them. I'm only requesting people post only on the forums in this demo reminder thread because I need help keeping track of what demos have been uploaded so that I can double check it's on our FTP server, and I can make sure our internal spreadsheet is correct.

 

Ok, i admit i didn't see the date of that chat log rufus posted. I just remember his teammates where half of them were in the team that was formerly known as All-Star is being really particular with this POV demo submission rule since their team suffered a severe penalty last AFC.  He even kept that chat log till now and maybe he will keep it till the tournament ends. And tbh i feel you would still responded to likes of him or anyone else that's close to you on Steam message anyways.

 

And i guess i already rest my case on how you could have approached the people who messaged you on steam about the demo submissions on my first post.

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Let me preface this by saying that the inconsistency in the demo-uploads section of the rules and regulations was an oversight on my part as I have brought them upto date to reflect our new policies. If anyone notices such inconsistencies, feel free to point them out to us and we will update the rules at an appropriate time during, or outside of the season; or better yet, volunteer your services as a community helper, since we are under-staffed anyway.
 

In my opinion, which will not matter anyways, is that EVERY players should record a demo of the match and keep it till at least 2 weeks after the tournament ends but it SHOULDN'T BE COMPULSORY to upload them after every map. The demos that are recorded are to be kept should there be any dispute arise and the accused should present the demo to an anti-cheat team (which i'm not sure if u guys have) or admin. [/background]

 
Very nice in theory, but I have significant doubts about the efficiency of this solution. Without the shadow of a match/league penalty looming over their heads, I don't see teams taking demo-recording or uploading seriously enough. When that happens, good luck proving any sort of cheats/scripts.
 

So your going to ban new captains from forever playing anymore in AsiaFortress and eventually kill their passion for competitive TF2? Back to my point. I understand you guys can't EFFICIENTLY solve previous problems with hack accusations etc but other TF2 leagues have seem to be running just ok with responding with these accusations etc. and they didn't have to resolve to these sort of demo submission compulsory rule.

 
Being a team captain is not a responsibility to be taken lightly; subsequently, failure to be informed about(and carry out) one's duties as a team captain should not be allowed to slide. Nevertheless, as the penalty of a league ban for team captains is not actually in our rules, said penalty is subject to revision or removal.
 
As for your insinuation that other leagues seem to be running fine without compulsory demo submission, allow me to direct you to ETF2L's General Rules.
 
As quoted from the above link
 

[i]2.4 Every player has to record Demos[/i]
Demos can be requested by an admin or any player of the opposing team.
Admins may request demos up to the end of the competition the match was played in (until the wrap up post is published). They can request as many demos as they require.
The opposing team can request demos up to 48 hours after the match was scheduled to start. They can request demos from up to 2 players, who will then have to provide their demos for all played maps.
A player whose demos have been requested has 72 hours to upload the demo, starting from the time the request was made. All requested demos up to 64 MB have to be uploaded to ETF2L. Links to third party hosters will be ignored.
Failure to supply a requested demo will be punished.

Do refrain from poorly-informed criticism in the future.

  • Like 2

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TEK:


  • 3 demos submitted [tricky / dhiva / floaty]
  • 2 demos submitted [ tricky / winstone]
  • 2 demos submitted [chiva / regal]

 


Round 1


Resubmitted my own demo under my own "actual" name, even though I believe I registered under the name alucard


Jacci played first round before he was banned from the competition, registered his demo under the name sim.


Regal did not have p-rec because he didn't know. Now he does and he will be recording demos from now on.


 


Round 2


We didn't play a round 2


 


Round 3


Tricky, Winstone resubmitted their "round 2" demos under the name round 3. [revision: tricky cannot find the demo he uploaded, however it is uploaded under round 2. Will the admin accept this?]  I revised my [demo] name again to Cowii. Saki will submit his demo asap.


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Reason as to why there is only one demo for week 1 was due to the fact I had to go off and only managed to play one map. 

 

Week 2 however I did play both maps and I submitted both of it. 

 

EDIT: Did not play Week 3 at all 

Edited by Dream

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Let me preface this by saying that the inconsistency in the demo-uploads section of the rules and regulations was an oversight on my part as I have brought them upto date to reflect our new policies. If anyone notices such inconsistencies, feel free to point them out to us and we will update the rules at an appropriate time during, or outside of the season; or better yet, volunteer your services as a community helper, since we are under-staffed anyway.

 

 

Very nice in theory, but I have significant doubts about the efficiency of this solution. Without the shadow of a match/league penalty looming over their heads, I don't see teams taking demo-recording or uploading seriously enough. When that happens, good luck proving any sort of cheats/scripts.

 

 

Being a team captain is not a responsibility to be taken lightly; subsequently, failure to be informed about(and carry out) one's duties as a team captain should not be allowed to slide. Nevertheless, as the penalty of a league ban for team captains is not actually in our rules, said penalty is subject to revision or removal.

 

As for your insinuation that other leagues seem to be running fine without compulsory demo submission, allow me to direct you to ETF2L's General Rules.

 

As quoted from the above link

 

[i]2.4 Every player has to record Demos[/i]
Demos can be requested by an admin or any player of the opposing team.
Admins may request demos up to the end of the competition the match was played in (until the wrap up post is published). They can request as many demos as they require.
The opposing team can request demos up to 48 hours after the match was scheduled to start. They can request demos from up to 2 players, who will then have to provide their demos for all played maps.
A player whose demos have been requested has 72 hours to upload the demo, starting from the time the request was made. All requested demos up to 64 MB have to be uploaded to ETF2L. Links to third party hosters will be ignored.
Failure to supply a requested demo will be punished.

Do refrain from poorly-informed criticism in the future.

[i]2.4 Every player has to record Demos[/i]

Demos can be requested by an admin or any player of the opposing team.

Admins may request demos up to the end of the competition the match was played in (until the wrap up post is published). They can request as many demos as they require.

 

1.I actually have check ETF2L league before i alleged poorly-informed criticism. In ETF2L It's actually based on admin's request as it's stated there and as i said it should be compulsory it should be uploaded after every single map (maybe i should have posted that on my post ealier to make it more clear. I apologize). As for you guys, you guys are asking it to be compulsory to be uploaded after every single map as part of the league's features. The other leagues only require demos if they are to review accusations being made that is what i meant as it clearly mentioned there. Not everyone will be always keeping their demos or having so much time on their PC especially this period of time with exams or even have technical PC problems. 

 

2. Why can't u see that isn't the efficiency of the solution? If the accused player failed to provide demo that is requested by admin/anti-cheat team/opposing player then severely penalize the player/team. Drop 3 matches of them or something severe. It's simple. If they try to make a stand or argue then just show them that they fail to abide such rules and because it's already stated in the rules. That's why u have rules and regulations for guidelines. It's simple. It's irrelevant.

 

3. Sorry, i wouldn't want to volunteer myself to a community that chooses their administration based on whose close to the head admins and not because of their qualities of leadership, professionalism, good PR, respectful. The sort of people you guys should have given higher admin powers you guys leave them in the dark  and where-else empower an immature high school kid to lead the entire thing because he has the time to do it.

 

4. I agree being a team leader isn't  a thing taken lightly. I have been leading teams for more then 4 years and helped leading teams it's nothing to be taken lightly and it's a-lot of responsibility that's why i applause the newer and younger players that stepped up to try to lead the teams but you guys could just actually approached them in a better and more respectful way then to post wall of shame to try to embarrassed them when u expect them to go read a dead forum especially when we have players from country from Japan/Korea where they don't really have best of level english. He could have just redirected them nicely to the forum whenever someone approached him. The point of being an admin is to be approached-able . Like UGC admins they e-mailed me or PM me through Steam when there was any problems rise.

 

I have the outmost respect for you Fuzz, and i understand and appreciate your say in this but yes i done my homework and i have read everything. And also i know your not blind and your wise enough to see how Shounic being an admin ever since he took charge. I understand and appreciate shounic's help and contribution to Asiafortress since no one else steps up to help you guys whom are severely understaffed at the moment but please my advice is that you guys get admins that have actual true qualities as an admin.

 

Regards,

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Reason as to why there is only one demo for week 1 was due to the fact I had to go off and only managed to play one map. 

 

Week 2 however I did play both maps and I submitted both of it. 

 

EDIT: Did not play Week 3 at all

I don't understand your first sentence. What about the rest of your team?

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13 September 2014
22:53 - ♛rfs: hey shounic
22:53 - shounic: hi
22:54 - ♛rfs: cos of the p-rec issue
22:54 - ♛rfs: we forgot to record
22:54 - shounic: =.=
23:02 - ♛rfs: so how?
23:02 - shounic: i won't dq, but I'll punish for the next time again
 
Please excuse MVP for the missing demos for Round 2.
 
Round 3 demo issues are being sorted out.

 

 

Round 3 demos have been uploaded but Crabby got his process demo deleted because of the P-REC delete useless demo command but he uploaded his coalplant demo.

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The Homely Hobos

 

Round 2 Demos-

Bait has uploaded

 

Round 3 Demos

Bait, bio, cal, clover, gene and Astro have uploaded

For round 2 bait played 20 mins on snakewater before having to sub out, so gene played but he forgot to record after subbing midway, hope we can leniency on this matter. Thank you

Edited by Biotics

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TEK:

  • 3 demos submitted [tricky / dhiva / floaty]
  • 2 demos submitted [ tricky / winstone]
  • 2 demos submitted [chiva / regal]

 

Round 1

Resubmitted my own demo under my own "actual" name, even though I believe I registered under the name alucard

Jacci played first round before he was banned from the competition, registered his demo under the name sim.

Regal did not have p-rec because he didn't know. Now he does and he will be recording demos from now on.

 

Round 2

We didn't play a round 2

 

Round 3

Tricky, Winstone resubmitted their "round 2" demos under the name round 3. [revision: tricky cannot find the demo he uploaded, however it is uploaded under round 2. Will the admin accept this?]  I revised my [demo] name again to Cowii. Saki will submit his demo asap.

 

can update yet?

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