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Jopperstaluf

weapon whitlelist

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I really want to start a drama

 

BTW nata has stated before he doesn't like strange weapons. His opinion may still be the same...

http://asiafortress....-strange-kills/

 

As mentioned on the thread, nata's original argument for banning strange weapons has been invalidated due to updates on stranges.

 

Killstreak weapons do have 'popups' of sorts for killstreak milestones but they are much less annoying than the strange one and are basically an extension to the killfeed.

 

Think it'll be nice if saki's updated whitelist got the stranges and killstreaks put into the AFL servers for cosmetic purposes.

 

---

 

Regarding discussion of the unlock list, is it really necessary for another thread to be made for the purpose of garnering more opinion? Can discussion only happen in the General Discussion sub-forum? This thread after all seems to have been made regarding unlocks in the first place.

 

As to changing the unlock list itself, I don't see why taking a step towards the direction of allowing more weapons might be a bad thing.

 

A good point to note is that it's the direction that the larger TF2 scenes of NA (ESEA) and more recently EU (ETF2L) have taken. While some may be against the idea of 'following blindly' and 'hopping on the bandwagon', most of us will agree that the NA and EU scenes are much more successful with less of the problem of a stagnant metagame. While unlocks might not be the only factor, or even a factor at all, there's little risk in opening this possibility to the Asian scene.

 

We won't need to be revolutionary with the unlocks and allow ridiculous things like the G.R.U. , but following in the footsteps of the larger scenes that have already proven that these unlocks don't completely break the 6v6 game despite some of them apparently being far from balanced (Direct Hit, Axtinguisher/Degreaser/Flare Gun, Dead Ringer, Force-a-Nature, Black Box, among others) doesn't strike me as something to avoid.

 

Granted, what will happen in the first couple of weeks will probably be chaos, much like giving a child a new shiny toy (there's already been a precedent in this scene showing that) in that puggers will not be able to resist trying out the new unlocks, potentially ruining the pug experience for some.

However, once the novelty wears off and we learn to DEAL with these other weapons instead of dismissing them as gimmicks and ridiculously balanced products of power creep, (the non-default pyro being a main example) the integration of these weapons will improve general skill level on the whole as the necessity of adapting to the unlocks facilitates improvement of our players. (off the top of my head: airstrafing to avoid the direct hit)

 

This will be alongside the opening of more options during more serious games such as scrims/matches where the possibility of including these weapons and accounting for their shortcomings can be taken as part of a pre-planned strategy. (Running the FaN full time on one scout and thinking of ways to lessen the problem of a small clip in exchange for finding means to put the knockback and mobility to your full advantage.)

 

The viability of more weapons won't only serve to cure our own 'boredom', as suggested earlier this thread, but will make games themselves less 'boring' to viewers, as well as improve participation from more players (re: pubbers). After all, developing this scene is something we're all shooting for, right?

 

The main problems I see with allowing more weapons are firstly that pugs will potentially be even more disastrous (cancer) than current standards. We've just had several threads regarding off-classing (let's not detour here) and many might see unlocks accentuating this problem. To be frank, I don't think the problem will be much worse, as other than the 'shiny new toy' period of time, we'll end up with the same people callously offclassing who will use unlocks outside of applicable situations, whatever their reasoning would be. If you're going to have a cancer pug anyway, might as well have a laugh at it with the unlocks, eh?

I can't argue much against this point though, but, will avoiding this annoyance be worth the potential loss of much development of the scene?

Aside from these unassuaged problems of annoyances, nata, being as busy as he is, will invariably bring up the problem of "So, who will handle it?", to which I honestly have no answer.

 

---

 

So to recap, why not talk here, let's follow NA/EU being good, unlocks at first ruin us, then improve us, develop scene, much cancer pugs, already cancer pugs, such responsibility.

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BTW nata has stated before he doesn't like strange weapons. His opinion may still be the same...

http://asiafortress....-strange-kills/

 

Strange weapon level ups also no longer pop up to anyone but the owner of the weapon.

 

Each time the player achieves a new rank, it is announced to all players on the server with a message in the chat box; A notification pop-up also appears only for the player the weapon belongs to.

 

Problem solved there so that's a good start \(^▽^@)ノ

 

My point was that if change was to happen there needs to be more people expressing their opinion on the matter

 

Erm, That's what we are doing :x

 

If you are really that insistent and confident in these new unlocks you can create a new topic and let the community decide for themselves then.

 

We can talk here thoughhhh O(≧▽≦)O

 

By no means does Jop EXPECT an immediate change, we are discussing о(ж>▽<)y ☆

 

We have established thus far that we have an issue of some pug games becoming more painful with some unlocks such as the quick fix in place.

 

​In that case, what would be interesting but not wreck our current format? :D

 

I'm all up for stock all the way but let's see what this community thinks of the weapons or can brainstorm here ヽ( ★ω★)ノ

 

 

No harm done right? \(@ ̄∇ ̄@)/

 

/Throws hats everywhere for people to catch

 

Edit: Wow aspencc's argument REALLY deserves some hats :DDD

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So it might be possible for stranges and killstreak weapons to be added into the whitelist?

 

They both come under tf_weapon_upgradable

 

I added it as allowed in the whitelist considering that the kill notice that nata did not like is no longer public as a notification.

 

It is of course still up to them as adminny people to decide :D

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Now my essay just looks extra :<

 

But yeah, unless admins have another reason to dislike stranges/killstreaks it looks highly probable.

 

It used to make a popup on the left side of the screen that you had to close to ALL players in the server.

 

Now it doesn't.

 

Edit:

There's been >5 people so far who've actually said anything about the current unlock list.

 

Also, I think we're reaching the target of greater than 5!

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Problem solved there so that's a good start \(^▽^@)ノ

 

 

 

Erm, That's what we are doing :x

 

 

 

We can talk here thoughhhh O(≧▽≦)O

 

By no means does Jop EXPECT an immediate change, we are discussing о(ж>▽<)y ☆

 

 

THANK YOU SAKI!!!!

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Regarding discussion of the unlock list, is it really necessary for another thread to be made for the purpose of garnering more opinion? Can discussion only happen in the General Discussion sub-forum? This thread after all seems to have been made regarding unlocks in the first place.

 

 

THANK YOU ASPENCC!!!

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LET ME START BECAUSE I DONT LIKE ASIAN DRAMAS

 

(Imagines the recent fuzz almost transcending to another universe with Shounic looking introspectively in the moonlight as he monologuing his need for Fuzz's skill )

 

The bazaar bargain would've been cool (Allowed in CEVO) but it's got a major bug in it that still causes issues:

 

  • If random critical hit is disabled, after the player successfully scoring a headshot, any subsequent scoped body shots will increase the bonus.

 

SO that throws away my favourite rifle in the dustbin (*´°̥̥̥̥̥̥̥̥﹏°̥̥̥̥̥̥̥̥ )人(´°̥̥̥̥̥̥̥̥ω°̥̥̥̥̥̥̥̥`)

 

What else you guys?

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if you really want to know i say make new topic for the sake of cleaner but this also can laaaaaa. Go on, discuss dear friends.

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Aspencc for carry.

 

But what is exactly wrong with implementing new white lists? If it seriously does turn out bad or shit gets down, isnt just replacing the white list with the old one a simple solution?

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look, all i am asking is that we have our own whitelist with UGC's whitelist as a BENCHMARK.

 

it be nice for us to talk about what weapons should/shouldn't be allowed and come up with OUR own whitelist

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we haven't said no to the new "reskins". Just be patient and let them work it out. Natapon has been busy lately and he's the only one with server access iirc.

 

regarding unbanning new weapons, the quickfix was so dumb on gullywash mids as you could see from ESEA. It caused so many stalemates too. You might be bored, but other people seem to be fine with our current unlock system. If you are really that insistent and confident in these new unlocks you can create a new topic and let the community decide for themselves then.

Clearly there is an inherent problem with the Quick Fix and not the fact that it was Gullywash in the finals for Invite with actual cash on the line and with a weapon that literally just got buffed a few days before.

 

Best course of action is just to ban it to ensure we can continue playing the same game from 2009 and ignore the bone Valve has thrown us, instead of attempting whatsoever to develop a metagame or new strategy around it.

 

As Aspencc said, I'm not pushing for a ridiculous whitelist with Gunslinger and Sandman allowed, amongst other nonsense. But at least attempts to allow interesting sidegrades such as the Black Box would go miles to improve the current stale metagame, instead of pointing at practically all the unlocks and declaring "This does not exist!".

 

Even ETF2L is trying.

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lol i didn't say don't want weapon, just try recommend you how to go about actually making a difference since our admins are quite picky.

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The closest we'll go to allowing more unlocks is the current ETF2L whitelist.

 

We're still discussing stranges for the near future.

 

The text that follows this is my opinion alone, and I do not speak for the rest of the admin team when I say that everyone needs to stop talking about "the metagame" as if this is some kind of MOBA. The unlock meta-game is a tiny part of 6v6 TF2, and I think a lot of people are misguided in thinking that allowing more unlocks will be the saviour of competitive TF2, or even bring anything good to the table. Barring attempts to get TF2 to DreamHack or other such events, support from Valve(be it through in-game lobby systems or spectator options) is the only thing which will make TF2 grow as an e-sport.

I've said this earlier, but I see absolutely no merits to allowing unlocks like the quick-fix, direct-hit, jarate and huntsman, both from a league standpoint and a PuG standpoint.

 

The game is only as stale as you make it. If you're asking for more unlocks with the end goal of increased fun, then you should probably not be playing 6v6 TF2. If you think unlocks will bring some magnificient paradigm shift and increase the skill-ceiling, I think you're sadly mistaken. It would be good to remind everyone in here that TF2 is an FPS, not a MOBA or RTS, and FPS games have primarily been about individual mechanics, timing, aim, movement, positioning and team co-ordination.

 

tl;dr - Stop thinking about how you could have won that one scrim if you had full quickfix charge after wiping on mid, and think about how you could have prevented your team from getting wiped on mid in the first place.

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On the topic of Stranges and Killstreaks, I see no basis for keeping (only some of) them banned.

 

The notifications no longer pop up for anyone but the owner.

 

Also, only stock variants are banned. I believe unlocks and reskins, including Festives and Botkillers, are not. That's why Jopper's Killstreak Kritz cannot be blocked by the whitelist alone, but my Killstreak Syringe Gun could.

 

It's both illogical and inconsistent at this point to keep the upgradable versions of stock weapons banned simply because it's possible with the way the whitelist works.

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We (admins) have been discussing possibly unbanning less impactful weapons like the Winger and Amputator to see how it goes.

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Also, only stock variants are banned. I believe unlocks and reskins, including Festives and Botkillers, are not. That's why Jopper's Killstreak Kritz cannot be blocked by the whitelist alone, but my Killstreak Syringe Gun could.

 

TF_weapon_upgradable was set to 0 in current whitelist that's why.

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The closest we'll go to allowing more unlocks is the current ETF2L whitelist.

 

We're still discussing stranges for the near future.

 

The text that follows this is my opinion alone, and I do not speak for the rest of the admin team when I say that everyone needs to stop talking about "the metagame" as if this is some kind of MOBA. The unlock meta-game is a tiny part of 6v6 TF2, and I think a lot of people are misguided in thinking that allowing more unlocks will be the saviour of competitive TF2, or even bring anything good to the table. Barring attempts to get TF2 to DreamHack or other such events, support from Valve(be it through in-game lobby systems or spectator options) is the only thing which will make TF2 grow as an e-sport.

I've said this earlier, but I see absolutely no merits to allowing unlocks like the quick-fix, direct-hit, jarate and huntsman, both from a league standpoint and a PuG standpoint.

 

The game is only as stale as you make it. If you're asking for more unlocks with the end goal of increased fun, then you should probably not be playing 6v6 TF2. If you think unlocks will bring some magnificient paradigm shift and increase the skill-ceiling, I think you're sadly mistaken. It would be good to remind everyone in here that TF2 is an FPS, not a MOBA or RTS, and FPS games have primarily been about individual mechanics, timing, aim, movement, positioning and team co-ordination.

 

tl;dr - Stop thinking about how you could have won that one scrim if you had full quickfix charge after wiping on mid, and think about how you could have prevented your team from getting wiped on mid in the first place.

 

If you're saying TF2 doesn't have a standard meta then the standard cookie-cutter won't be used often.

 

Yes i agree it's a FPS and FPS is unlike RTS or MOBA but isn't RTS and MOBA also bout individual mechanics, timing, aim, movement, positioning and team co-ordination?

 

Yes TF2's unlocks won't get generally increase it's popularity and what not to get it to Dreamhacks and etc. but the Mix^ and iT match hit a 1000 viewers on Teamfortress.tv and people are still talking about it today and how amazing the match. I admit both teams didn't use much unlocks but the game was exciting to watch in general. Did it break a stale? It sure didn't as the match went to golden cap but the excitement of every push both teams attempted make all the viewers excited and kept watching. It's also an indicator that the game is growing.

 

Yes i do agree that unlocks won't be the major factors of teams winning mids/2nd/last and teams should be talking about how to play better pushes/holds/mids but i like i said it brings fresh and new perspective on how we play the game. Does it help div 3 people win mids against a div 1 team? I still doubt it.

 

We play the game because we love it but there's no harm in trying something new and some new changes.

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TF_weapon_upgradable was set to 0 in current whitelist that's why.

Yeah I understand that, which is mindboggling because it only affects the stock Stranges/Killstreaks and not everything else including reskins, which completely defeats the purpose.

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Im actually pretty open to the idea of sidegrade weapons but there has to be proper reasoning and support on why each wep should be allowed on a case by case basis.

 

Believe me buff banner is the ultimate stalemate weapon and it's more novelty than anything

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