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Bob

rolling to spec in pugs

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oh u mean this?

 

 

 

Solo sniper instead of scout/soldier will change how the midfight is played, adjustments to different roles of other classes will be made to cover for lack of scout/soldier. Summer expounds on this comparing to sheep/panda.

 

If he can hold a flank on his own, bravo.

Can every sniper hold his flank on his own? VERY unlikely.

Should pugs be the environment for this? <--- here is point, don't miss it!

 

Nobody needs to answer your 101 what-if situations.

 

 

 

Breakthroughs happen through conversation and reflection, and even if there weren't any breakthroughs it doesn't mean we cannot make use of a forum provided to us for specific use of discussion anyway.

 

Playing another class can be good, it can be bad, just take the experimentation of the meta-game into your own team.

 

That's about it.

 

Nobody can stop you from polluting this thread with more garbage.

 

Very much like how you simply cannot slam the lid on this discussion right now.

 

I implore you though, to direct your attention to more contributive aspects regarding the discussion.

 

If you TRULY feel like this discussion can go nowhere, and you have nothing constructive to contribute...

 

Take the stairs bro. It's right there.

 

Also, nobody expects rules to solve situations entirely.

 

You cannot reverse logic this by saying that "rules will not solve this situation fully" and argue that rules are should then be removed(correct me if i'm wrong in assuming this is your stand).

 

 

 

These rules are what reduced a far more rampant off-classing shitfest back in December 2012 to what we have today, which is progressive in my opinion.

 

It didn't work 100% of the time, but I don't see pyros/engineers/spies/heavies/snipers to middle as often now isn't it?

 

The rule didn't fail because it wasn't made to be 100% foolproof.

 

I really do not wish to answer anymore self-explanatory questions that most literate people can figure out on their own or what-if situations that you are attempting to use rhetorically.

 

Use those what-if situations in YOUR TEAM.

 

Biotics, on the other hand, reads through these posts in one sitting despite having an O level history paper tomorrow, and comes up with a very sensible opinion on the issue, expressed clearly, concisely and makes a good case.

 

Bravo, young man, bravo.

 

Your stupidity is not our responsibility.

 

Good day!

 

nope case closed, you are an idiot :)

you turned your anus 420 to prove my original point then tried to insult me.

 

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I sincerely hope that all of you are aware that the title of this thread is "rolling to spec in pugs". #justsayin.

 

I don't understand why everyone is getting so butt-hurt about off-classing in pugs. Rules have already been put in place to deter players from off-classing. If stupid people are unable to comply with said rules, then the "punishment" for that AS WE ALL KNOW is to kick/ban (depending on how many times these stupid people want to push the limit) them.

 

I may not be a veteran or a regular pugger (and for good reason because this community has deteriorated to a massive pile of shit) but at least I have the common sense not to play classes I know I'm not good at during a pug. Unfortunately for me, I'm not good at any class, or at least at the cookie-cutter classes that are encouraged in pugs. Even so, I try my best to pull my weight playing any cookie-cutter class during a pug. For some reason, I'm trying to learn. Isn't that what a pug is for? To help new, inexperienced players learn how to play in a 6v6 situation? If 6v6 situations dictate that there are classes that should be played majority of the time because it has proven efficient, then shouldn't those classes also be enforced in pugs?

 

I understand how some self-proclaimed "God" status gamers enjoy ruining pugs "because they can" and often times pull it off because they have spend countless hours honing their skills. But new, inexperienced players should have the common sense to know that until they get to that level, they cannot expect the same results if they were to do the same things.

 

Honestly, the only way to "solve" this "issue" is if people decide to be decent human beings, grow a brain and apply some common sense. But obviously that is never going to happen, and therefore this debate will never end because as from what I can see everyone is only trying to prove that they have a bigger penis than the next person.

 

Well done, AF Community. You have once again proven why I will never want to take an active part in this community.

 

p/s: Biotics makes a really good point and I applaud him for reading through the shitfest amount of posts that has been made.

 

p/p/s: & Azazel, as much as I enjoy your posts please don't say "trolololol misfit if you don't care why you post" or you will receive a very nasty e-bitchslap from me kthx jk kidding luv u (Summer don't jelly I love you most xoxo)

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Honestly, the only way to "solve" this "issue" is if people decide to be decent human beings, grow a brain and apply some common sense. But obviously that is never going to happen, and therefore this debate will never end because as from what I can see everyone is only trying to prove that they have a bigger penis than the next person.

p/p/s: & Azazel, as much as I enjoy your posts please don't say "trolololol misfit if you don't care why you post" or you will receive a very nasty e-bitchslap from me kthx jk kidding luv u (Summer don't jelly I love you most xoxo)

 

Well... to be fair... apart from all the penis engorging ...there are actually some valid points brought up by everybody.

 

I use the term "everybody" very loosely.

 

Nobody can stop you from polluting this thread with more garbage.

Very much like how you simply cannot slam the lid on this discussion right now.

I implore you though, to direct your attention to more contributive aspects regarding the discussion.

If you TRULY feel like this discussion can go nowhere, and you have nothing constructive to contribute...

Take the stairs bro. It's right there.

 

While more "I'm right but you're wrong" dick slapping contests will not help carry this discussion further towards a positive outcome, I'm sure that constructive opinions coming from more of our community will help.

 

With differing perspectives and/or responses from myself, Halu, Natapon, Summer, Biotics, Bob, Blurr, Madman, Hedwig, Qjyap, k1infran, Spammah, Caldoran, Aycan, Misfit, and also from the oz scene, Yukari, I think this debate was clearly worth the trouble.

 

Let's not slam the lid on it just yet!

 

Also, to keep this still relevant to the original post... please pick Bob. He waited 10 minutes for a pug but he didn't get picked. Sadface :(

 

- no slapping pls. i'm just here to talk(type)!

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Good read

 

I only read bio's and aycan's post cause the first had a good point that was brought forward. The second was short and sweet lol

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I may not be a veteran or a regular pugger (and for good reason because this community has deteriorated to a massive pile of shit)

 

Well done, AF Community. You have once again proven why I will never want to take an active part in this community.

 

So apart from the two things you mentioned in your post 1. some regulars offclassing cuz they've 'peaked' at their main 2. some veterans/regulars flexing their e-peen... care to elaborate on the two highlighted statements above?

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So apart from the two things you mentioned in your post 1. some regulars offclassing cuz they've 'peaked' at their main 2. some veterans/regulars flexing their e-peen... care to elaborate on the two highlighted statements above?

 

Sure.

 

I just feel that the community lacks initiative and has the tendency to point the blame when things go wrong to everyone else but themselves. I also feel that many people are unappreciative (and maybe unaware, but that's still not an excuse) of the amount of work and dedication a small pool of people have contributed to make AF what it is today. Many of them whine to the high heavens and are seemingly unable to express their thoughts in a constructive manner. Some of them are unable to handle constructive criticism or any form of response that they do not agree with.

 

I'm obviously not going to name names, or quote posts from the various threads on this site. Unlike Azazel, I do not have the aptitude to dissect every little thing and come up with explanations or rebuttals. I mean I only got A2 for English (A1 for Literature, but whatever - stupid O Levels).

 

There used to be a time when people were a little bit more thick-skinned and good-natured enough to let things be. Less drama, more fun and a better bond. I, however, don't see that anymore during this present time.

 

Bear in mind that this is my perception of things, and in no way should be used as a measure for the community. Is my view narrow-minded? Maybe. Does it make what I feel any less true? No.

 

As for why "I will never want to take an active part in this community", that it my stand based on how I feel (as stated in the aforementioned paragraphs).

 

But I'm a nobody, so why would anyone take what I say to heart right? (: But you did ask me to elaborate, so there you go.

 

 

 

*I would like to clarify something about my previous post. It was not my intention to be rude or disrespect the community, and I apologize if I have offended anyone.

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Like what misfit and bio had said before,it all boils down to the people of this community, whether we want to be kind-hearted people that help each other improve or all-out bad guys (and girls) that don't give a shit other than the number of headshots they get. This is one problem that will never have a perfect please-all solution because there will always be that one bad guy or disagreement.

 

TF2 might just be a game but that doesn't mean real-world etiquette doesn't need to be applied in a game.

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new people =/= retards. just like how when you were born you didn't know how to talk/walk etc. you learn, but this can only be achieved through the guidance and lessons you learn from others. there was once a new person in a low-level pug and my team was really nice to him and he was actually happy that he could learn and he had the opportunity to learn from others, and he remarked that he would go back to pugs if there were such nice people around

 

also if new people off-class and suck at it just tell them nicely and they'll probably go back to their original classes. be nice, spread the love, not hate.

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There used to be a time when people were a little bit more thick-skinned and good-natured enough to let things be. Less drama, more fun and a better bond. I, however, don't see that anymore during this present time.

 

Well... this is a to be fair post!

 

TO BE FAIR....

 

Forum "drama" originates from controversial topics that will inevitably create a rift between different perspectives.

 

When there are people with different perspectives and are game enough to enter a heated debate about it, there is absolutely no way anybody is going to "let things be".

 

That will undoubtedly lead to debating on topic, fault finding, loophole exploiting, and also retard emergence.

 

Is this less fun than an entirely passive community that is all pink ponies and purple unicorns?

 

I think some people actually find controversial forum threads an interesting read.

 

That aside, do understand that most people do not take good news to the forum.

 

I hate to make this analogy... but the media will report the accidents/crimes/tragedies that are unfortunate in the community.

 

While 1% of people walking home from work are mysteriously fingered up the butt by a straw, the other 99% of the community are safe and sodomy free from the journey home.

 

You might not see it, but there are fun times and a generally good atmosphere in the community. (At least I feel this way)

 

It just doesn't get played up very much.

 

As somebody that has joined this community in December 2012, I think it is not so bad now.

 

I remember when veteran players would tell me things like:

 

"Azazel you need me to donate points to you or not? 10 enough?"

"Medic: Azazel, I think we need to swap because you suck"

"Azazel your mouse spoil?"

 

At least now, I don't see these statements being thrown at our new players as much, or even at all.

 

Don't give up just yet, we're getting there.

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new people =/= retards. just like how when you were born you didn't know how to talk/walk etc. you learn, but this can only be achieved through the guidance and lessons you learn from others. there was once a new person in a low-level pug and my team was really nice to him and he was actually happy that he could learn and he had the opportunity to learn from others, and he remarked that he would go back to pugs if there were such nice people around also if new people off-class and suck at it just tell them nicely and they'll probably go back to their original classes. be nice, spread the love, not hate.

 

fair analysis, but you have to consider that some new players are truly ignorant / retards. I played a pug last night where I ASKED (over in-game voice) the new player whether "he wanted to pocket or roam" with no response. His rollout was bad, and I only assumed he was attempting to roam after the first mid, then changed to pocket. Sometimes not everyone should get a fair chance. We (my pug team) still managed to carry him but he was so detached from everything I gave up trying to help him.

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-snip-

 

Agreed with everything you mentioned. The asian competitive community has come a long way since the old days where you guys actually care enough to vent your frustrations in-game in comparison to the passive behavior I saw years ago.

 

Right now the pug community for sg/my/tw/hk/etc is built up around the AF servers, so if you're an aspiring comp player looking for the highest quality pugs, AF is your only choice. Other smaller servers like Mokee's, lowyat pug etc don't offer the same level of quality in terms of gameplay as AF pugs do. Although, the smaller servers tend to have friendlier atmospheres although I doubt it would remain that way as their players get better. When you get good at something, you instinctively build an ego and character around you. Whether you choose to stay humble or evolve your character (attitude/personality/whatever) is something you decide. This is a natural progression of things.

 

Anyway.

 

I've said this time and time again to a few of the veterans in the community but I guess I'll put it out here in public. There are three ways that can really help with the whole situation, because from what I see, there's a lot of pressure + pent-up emotions + energy being built up and there are not enough available outlets for release.

 

1. A properly structured AFA organization. A system that involves and makes all the players (veterans, regulars, newbies) feel part of something. This will motivate even some of the most selfish players to step out and actively contribute to something, because hell, who doesn't like imparting wisdom? This whole new AFA system will really help everyone release the pent-up pressure through positive channels by educating newer players. It doesn't benefit just the pug players themselves, but also all players from all sorts of game modes, it can also motivate and nurture future community contributors that could help AF with its growing admin needs etc.

 

2. More AF tournaments or smaller cups. Right now, all the pug drama you're seeing is a clash of wills, egos, skills blablabla, again a lot of pressure points being created but nowhere to release. Why not have community created cups that run over a weekend (2-3 days) using some fair tournament format that allows a lot of teams to test their mettle? Make it a mixed weekend cup where players from any and all divisions are allowed to participate. Wanna take it up a notch? Make it mixed teams.

 

3. More content and respective coverage through the international competitive websites.

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Agreed with everything you mentioned. The asian competitive community has come a long way since the old days where you guys actually care enough to vent your frustrations in-game in comparison to the passive behavior I saw years ago.

 

Right now the pug community for sg/my/tw/hk/etc is built up around the AF servers, so if you're an aspiring comp player looking for the highest quality pugs, AF is your only choice. Other smaller servers like Mokee's, lowyat pug etc don't offer the same level of quality in terms of gameplay as AF pugs do. Although, the smaller servers tend to have friendlier atmospheres although I doubt it would remain that way as their players get better. When you get good at something, you instinctively build an ego and character around you. Whether you choose to stay humble or evolve your character (attitude/personality/whatever) is something you decide. This is a natural progression of things.

 

Anyway.

 

I've said this time and time again to a few of the veterans in the community but I guess I'll put it out here in public. There are three ways that can really help with the whole situation, because from what I see, there's a lot of pressure + pent-up emotions + energy being built up and there are not enough available outlets for release.

 

1. A properly structured AFA organization. A system that involves and makes all the players (veterans, regulars, newbies) feel part of something. This will motivate even some of the most selfish players to step out and actively contribute to something, because hell, who doesn't like imparting wisdom? This whole new AFA system will really help everyone release the pent-up pressure through positive channels by educating newer players. It doesn't benefit just the pug players themselves, but also all players from all sorts of game modes, it can also motivate and nurture future community contributors that could help AF with its growing admin needs etc.

 

2. More AF tournaments or smaller cups. Right now, all the pug drama you're seeing is a clash of wills, egos, skills blablabla, again a lot of pressure points being created but nowhere to release. Why not have community created cups that run over a weekend (2-3 days) using some fair tournament format that allows a lot of teams to test their mettle? Make it a mixed weekend cup where players from any and all divisions are allowed to participate. Wanna take it up a notch? Make it mixed teams.

 

3. More content and respective coverage through the international competitive websites.

 

Yes.

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You know why AFA exist? Because new players coming in dont get to learn much in the current pug where there are no communications and veteran players arent really communicating much to the new players. Like what harm posted some time back, the pug that we participate everyday can already be an AFA session.

 

As what spammah mentioned, when you get good at something, you instinctively build an ego and character around you. Totally true. I dare to admit this myself that i am one of the players you are pinpointing out and i as a player can also feel some of the veterans out there that are the same as well. We cant avoid this. We become judgemental as we progress further but at this point in time i am really trying to be nice because its really not easy particularly when you are carrying so hard in pug when there is a new player in your team who do not know what is going on. Its not easy definitely but at the least we must try.

 

First thing first, i believe that the first step is to really get all the pug players in mumble. Only then there might be a significant change. We might not know but i believe it can be done. Dont make it a rule. Let them come if they want to be part of it. At the same time i must stress that the only way players are willing to come back is when they feel that the community bonds as one, joke around in mumble, laugh around , talk cock , sing song , gay with others and help others by correcting their mistakes in the pug.

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