Please add Pyros to the allowed classes in MGE

[Pickled_Orange 0]

i suggest for nata to turn on pyro in mgemod and wait for memory to prove benny orange right/wrong

instead of telling people "nah' date=' it can't be done"

why not just let him have a go?

[/quote']

 

RELEASE THE THARNOS

 

[Madman 185]

yeah I used to main pyro too and I can tell you th- NAH JUST KIDDING.

[Memory Score 0]

I main pyro' date=' and while I wish you luck on that, I really do not think it's everything you're expecting it to be.

[/quote']

 

I used to main pyro' date=' and I'm telling you it's not as easy as you think it is.

Same reason why you don't usually see pyros being used in scrims or pugs, because they're extremely situational.

My take on this is that while it wouldn't hurt to have pyros in MGE, it wouldn't make that much of a difference since the pyro is outclassed unless it can get up close, and even then all it takes to kill the pyro would be a rocket to the face, a scattergun blast to aforementioned region, or even-

Point is, that it'll usually fall back into bouts of W+M1ing before long.

 

Since we're at this why not add medics into MGE then

[/quote']

 

I main pyro too, but unlike you guys I'm not that involved with the comp scene, so I actually get to use the other unlocks (banned for god knows what reason--it's pyro's unlocks, not heavy's FFS) a lot more often on average. Let me break it down with numbers, even if math's something I suck at:

 

Pyro: 175HP

Solly: 200HP

 

We start with what, 1.3x health in MGE?

 

Pyro: 227HP

Solly: 260HP

 

Airblasted rockets deal 122 damage (assuming RL, not DH) minimum. Mini-crits have ramp-up, but we're assuming the minimum, so 122 damage.

 

A soldier's clip has four rockets. A pyro's ammo reserve has ten airblasts. While it may seem like the odds are stacked against the pyro since the soldier has another 20 rockets should the first four fail, here's how I see it:

 

The soldier's margin of error is two rockets. It's a very precarious margin, though, because once the overheal buff wears off you have a margin of one rocket before a huge chunk of your HP is gone. In other words, as long as I can reflect one or two of them you're deep in the red and totally fucked; why? Because I have the Degreaser and I can weapon heckle; I also have the Detonator (I'd use the Flare Gun but I like the controlled explosions of the Det).

 

The Detonator has 16 shots in the clip. All it takes is one hit for 30 damage, then another 60 damage over time with afterburn, which is 90 damage from a single flare. If I then score a direct hit with another flare, that's mini-crit afterburn for 80 damage total and another 41 damage from the projectile itself. 121 damage from two projectiles. See how that works?

 

I don't know what sucky pyros you guys have been playing against, but it looks like the comp/pug/6v6 metagame must be pretty myopic to not realise that when it comes to 1v1 (the purpose of my making this thread), the pyro isn't that bad off against the soldier, not at all.

 

No comment about pyros v.s. scouts and demos, but that's another story for another day.

 

equestrianism suddenly became a turn off

 

natapon' date=' did you ever get to adding in pyro for all the maps like I told you to on Steam? If you're too lazy to do it or busy for some reason I could send you the config file with pyro added in the relevant maps.

 

i suggest for nata to turn on pyro in mgemod and wait for memory to prove benny orange right/wrong

instead of telling people "nah, it can't be done"

why not just let him have a go?

 

Thank you! There are plenty of Pyro-enabled MGE servers out there, and I wouldn't be here making my case here if not for the fact that they're pretty much unplayable at that level of ping.

[heretotroll 10]

just put the pyro, let him get beaten up, and finish it.

[Pickled_Orange 0]

 

 

 

 

Not sure if delusional or trolling

 

just put the pyro' date=' let him get beaten up, and finish it.

[/quote']

 

+1

[Memory Score 0]

just put the pyro' date=' let him get beaten up, and finish it.

[/quote']

 

 

Not sure if delusional or trolling

 

You guys are hilarious. Not sure if ignorant or just village champions (for those who speak Malay/Malaysians' date=' that's translated from "jaguh kampung"). Do you guys even realise what MGE is for? It's for practising, not for this e-penis WHOAMG MY CLASS > UR CLASS SUX KEKEKE thing I thought only MMORPGs had.

 

And obviously "let him get beaten up" is exactly what I want. Do you know how annoying it is to not have a place to practice reflects against real people with actual skill, not f2ps that might as well be bots, or soldiers/demos that hold down M1/M2 all the time? Or are both of you just nearsighted point whores who don't realise that MGE is just a tool to get better in the game, not some metagame subset like trading?

 

Ever seen pyros like this?

 

No, of course you haven't. Because your village champ mentality just leads to you valuing the four core comp classes over the utilities, nevermind how the pyro is infinitely more flexible than you think.

 

Hell, while you're at it how about you look at what a pyro can do after a couple of months in MGE: http://www.youtube.com/user/thejimz1/videos

 

Think you're the only hotshots to ever grace this shooter? Please. To say I'm rolling my eyes is an understatement. Bring it. I want to get better. Maybe [i']you[/i] might learn something in the process too. Just maybe.

[DarKie 15]

why cant you just stop trying to counter every negative comment made :S

natapon is the person you want to talk to

besides, "your opinion is underrated" isn't a good way to convince anyone that pyro's should be allowed

[Memory Score 0]

why cant you just stop trying to counter every negative comment made :S

natapon is the person you want to talk to

besides' date=' "your opinion is underrated" isn't a good way to convince anyone that pyro's should be allowed

[/quote']

 

Because a lot of opinions in this thread are really unfounded/have been given little thought? It's just confirmed what I suspected all along? I mean, damn, if you want to eat that shit sandwich over there go ahead, I'm just gonna remind you that it's made out of shit when you're chewing on it happily and all. lololol shit sandwich eaters lololol

 

Also, nowhere did I say "your opinion is underrated", no strawmen please.

 

Pretty sure I've talked to nata once or twice but he seems to be afk a lot, I'll try and catch him when he's on later!

[ding 2]

I think it makes u sound like a person with no self confidence. Relax. Some people are joking, and even if they are not, so what? Join a team, and play pyro in a match, and if you win handsomely, then good for you. If not, then too bad for you.

 

People here have played the game for since it came out like years ago, so I think its quite funny and weirdly rude to come into the forums acting all condescending to us when asking for our help. (Pyro WINS EVERYTHING so let me play it. - was the tone of your first few posts) And needless to say, I can confidently say that that condescending tone of yours made everyone else to try talking you down.

 

Oh and just so you know, maybe other than the guy u posted in that video, many of the "best" pyros in this game actually play another class as their main class. Just to show how easy they think playing the pyro is and how important they think it is.

[Memory Score 0]

I think it makes u sound like a person with no self confidence. Relax. Some people are joking' date=' and even if they are not, so what? Join a team, and play pyro in a match, and if you win handsomely, then good for you. If not, then too bad for you.

 

People here have played the game for since it came out like years ago, so I think its quite funny and weirdly rude to come into the forums acting all condescending to us when asking for our help. (Pyro WINS EVERYTHING so let me play it. - was the tone of your first few posts) And needless to say, I can confidently say that that condescending tone of yours made everyone else to try talking you down.

 

Oh and just so you know, maybe other than the guy u posted in that video, many of the "best" pyros in this game actually play another class as their main class. Just to show how easy they think playing the pyro is and how important they think it is.

[/quote']

 

The only people who sound like they lack self-confidence are those in this thread who confidently claim that sollys have an inherent advantage without actually having any sort of evidence aside from anecdotal pub encounters, I'll bet. Nice ad hominem at any rate, glad you love your fallacies!

 

Also, I'm pretty much aware of that joke of a competitive scene you guys have where your precious classes are given unlocks while the pyro and spy are stuck with vanilla. Saw the AFL S5 whitelist and thought it was hilarious, and biased much? Degreaser kick your collective ass lately or something?

 

Thanks for giving this thread the attention it needs, though, I'll be off playing more pyro in-game when nata finally replies to my PMs or something.

[thelousy 3]

So from trying to promote pyro MGE skills, you end up bashing AFL5's whitelist seemingly biased against pyros?

 

I've personally nothing against you trying to get pyro in MGE, but I will not stand for poor reasoning (bias and hilarious? really?) for about not including certain unlocks in the whitelist. If you have a problem with that, post it in the query thread with good reasoning and examples that are relevant to competitive leagues and it will be considered.

[ding 2]

-.- whaat. my post wasn't even arguing against you. Ad hominem only applies when i am using it to base my facts on. eg. A is wrong because A is a murderer. Which i am not doing. please don't use terms you do not fully understand. I was merely describing my observations of your posts.

 

Certainly my judgement of you wasn't objective, that much is true. But the truth is that that is exactly what you are portraying yourself to be. You don't post in a forum with the first few posts smearing everyone who use this forum when you are actually asking for our help. It's common courtesy ( which i realise many of us lack also, but u are not making it any better).

 

I sure hope you don't live on hypocrisy, because

Also, I'm pretty much aware of that joke of a competitive scene you guys have where your precious classes are given unlocks while the pyro and spy are stuck with vanilla. Saw the AFL S5 whitelist and thought it was hilarious, and biased much? Degreaser kick your collective ass lately or something?

seems like a hasty generalisation, and just bad logic in general.

 

Let me make it clear, personally, i am not against you, I am actually in favour of your cause. All i am saying is that, dude, try to be a little friendlier around here, people aren't coming here to threaten your family, why are you so hostile?

---

Oh and I realise men don't like to be proven wrong or in the wrong. So its perfectly okay if your don't agree with my views about you. Just lay off people with less hostilities please. You are not making things better or anything, if you want to make people here hate you, why post here at all?

[DarKie 15]

slamming the white list that nata came up with is a bad idea, especially since you are trying to get him to allow pyro in mge servers

[Memory Score 0]

So from trying to promote pyro MGE skills' date=' you end up bashing AFL5's whitelist seemingly biased against pyros?

 

I've personally nothing against you trying to get pyro in MGE, but I will not stand for poor reasoning (bias and hilarious? really?) for about not including certain unlocks in the whitelist. If you have a problem with that, post it in the query thread with good reasoning and examples that are relevant to competitive leagues and it will be considered.

[/quote']

 

slamming the white list that nata came up with is a bad idea' date=' especially since you are trying to get him to allow pyro in mge servers

[/quote']

 

Whoa, guys, whoa. False equivalence much? Hold your horses. Take a look at these links, please:

 

http://etf2l.org/rules/league-rules/

http://esea.net/index.php?s=content&d=league_rules_tf2#Settings

http://www.cevo.com/index.php?page=div&id=397&func=rules#section_24.30

http://www.ugcleague.com/home_tf26.cfm (look at the sidebar on the right)

http://www.esl.eu/eu/tf2/6on6/league/season5/rules/#wdh_Interchangeable_weapons

http://www.teamwarfare.com/rules.asp?set=Team+Fortress+2+NA+League#9

http://www.teamwarfare.com/rules.asp?set=Team+Fortress+2+NA+Ladders#7

http://ozfortress.com/showthread.php?p=725296

 

Aside from etf2l's medlocks-only and ozfortress's objectively retarded "Allowed: Sandvich, Gloves of Running Urgently" whitelist, every other prominent comp TF2 around the world has pyro/spy unlocks. Poor reasoning? No, I'm actually pretty well informed about the state of unlocks the world over, thanks, although I'd like to ask the same of you at this point: Were you aware of how TF2 comp unlocks worldwide were before I linked you to them?

 

I digress. Looking at a lopsided whitelist like AFL's just makes me sad. Whitelists and blacklists in comp TF2 exist for one reason: balance. By not allowing any pyro/spy unlocks your whitelist just tars an entire class with the same brush, and that demonstrates a shallow understanding about the class's core mechanics.

 

And what's this nonsense about "white list that nata came up with"? Is it a one-man show? Does he singlehandedly decide what gets in the whitelist and what doesn't? You guys actually have a community consensus about this, right? Right?

 

At any rate, stop taking offence on nata's behalf. I only brought it up because it seems like you guys are stuck in vanilla like it's 2007, and what justifications I've read/heard about (from tharnos, talked to him once about this) so far aren't very convincing at all; I'm bringing it up in this thread because I haven't exactly seen encouraging/non-condescending attitudes from the majority of those posting here, and it's tangentially related to the subject at hand.

 

But it doesn't matter anyway, I'm just a random 500+ hours newbie pubstar who started earlier this year, right? An unknown outsider that dares to not kowtow to his seniors, something along those lines? Same song and dance.

 

-.- whaat. my post wasn't even arguing against you. Ad hominem only applies when i am using it to base my facts on. eg. A is wrong because A is a murderer. Which i am not doing. please don't use terms you do not fully understand. I was merely describing my observations of your posts.

 

LOL I'm not entirely sure you understand the fallacies either. My bad, I was thinking of poisoning the well, which is ad hominem's cousin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well Anyway! Come back when you understand how truth claims work, we're done here.

[spammah 103]

Fuckin hell, you make some good points. At first I thought you were being delusional or just wanting to have your own private fun (which you still do judging with the request for pyro class on MGE svr) but you're right. I do remember a lot of competitive Asian TF2 matches where a pyro really isn't able to do much apart from blow back or shoot its measly low damage flamethrower, which burning scouts can run the fuck away to grab health bars or burning sollies/demos can get extinguished easily by the medic. So it DOES make sense for pyro to have some unlocks at its disposal.

 

So all in all, yeah, your comments about the AFL5 whitelist should be accepted as constructive criticism whether they're snarky or not.

 

And you want to play and practise some MGE pyro for your own reasons regardless whether you rape or get raped or whatever so that's upon you and it is fine. And I totally 'get' your condescending tone which has been caused by some of the posters in this thread too.

[ding 2]

I think most people made it clear that we are not against your request.

---

Oh and that means i did not conclude u r wrong just because i thought u were condescending. so no. Maybe i really did commit some fallacies, who don't. Doesnt change my main point though.

 

Its nice that spammah agrees with you though. And i agree you make good points. I always agreed with a more liberal whitelist, like you do. However that is not my gripe against you, neither is it thelousy's gripe. i just think your views will be much better received if presented it in a nicer way? I mean no harm trying to make people like what you say.

[thelousy 3]

Look, all I'm asking is for proper reasoning and proof and I'll accept your point of view. The way you express your point of view just show that you think the whole world is against you and you want to fight your way through, not giving a damn whether the person is trying to help you express your point of view to the world.

 

Why do you have to give the tone that I'm clueless about the unlocks when I simply state that you can raise your points in the query thread which will then be considered? Do you think that I did not look at them prior to me asking you this question? Even though I'm actually glad something like this is being stirred, you're not doing yourself any favour right now with the way you write.

[DarKie 15]

I'm sorry if I sounded too aggressive, just saying that it would be nice to use a less condescending tone when you are trying to get help from the community, even if the comp scene here is joke, it is still our joke.

 

besides, when you are trying to get people to agree with you, and changes to be made, it won't hurt to present it across in a more polite manner, calling our comp scene a joke sounds a bit insulting(even when it is sort of true), especially when you admitted that you knew little about it and was comparing it with the more prominent league

 

honestly, imo, nobody cares whether you want pyro in mge or not, no offence intended, it just means one more class to screw around with in mge if it is allowed, i betcha everyone reads this thread, and they would have given their opinion and thought process if they felt the need, apparently they dont....

 

furthermore, as much as i like drama (this post is possibly the only alive post right now?)

i hope this "debate" ends, it does neither party good to be "arguing" about nothing in particular, seeing how all this started with one simple request to enable pyro in mge (I'm using the words loosely here)

 

re-iterating what I've said, just go get it done and prove us right/wrong, no point bitching about how our system is flawed and how you could do it, before you even get it done

again, i suggest that you try harder in contacting natapon, add him as a friend in steam perhaps?

he cant possibly be afk-ing 7 days out of the week

 

i hope you dont take what i say too literally,this is based of what i understand from reading so much, it is not meant as a offence/defence to anything, this is just my own opinion of what i think should happen

[bigfoot 4]

-.- whaat. my post wasn't even arguing against you. Ad hominem only applies when i am using it to base my facts on. eg. A is wrong because A is a murderer. Which i am not doing. please don't use terms you do not fully understand. I was merely describing my observations of your posts.

 

LOL philosophy class

[yuko 46]

-.- whaat. my post wasn't even arguing against you. Ad hominem only applies when i am using it to base my facts on. eg. A is wrong because A is a murderer. Which i am not doing. please don't use terms you do not fully understand. I was merely describing my observations of your posts.

 

LOL philosophy class

 

A+

 

[ding 2]

Incidentally, thats what i got. . U guys going jc next year?

[bigfoot 4]

Incidentally' date=' thats what i got. . U guys going jc next year?

[/quote']

 

those who fail philo cant go jc right

 

maybe this thread will help!

[ding 2]

lol no lah. they wont fail you. I think they will give u retests and retests till you pass philo.

[kushhh 22]

lol srsly

[obveeee 4]

So from trying to promote pyro MGE skills' date=' you end up bashing AFL5's whitelist seemingly biased against pyros?

 

I've personally nothing against you trying to get pyro in MGE, but I will not stand for poor reasoning (bias and hilarious? really?) for about not including certain unlocks in the whitelist. If you have a problem with that, post it in the query thread with good reasoning and examples that are relevant to competitive leagues and it will be considered.

[/quote']

 

slamming the white list that nata came up with is a bad idea' date=' especially since you are trying to get him to allow pyro in mge servers

[/quote']

 

Whoa, guys, whoa. False equivalence much? Hold your horses. Take a look at these links, please:

 

http://etf2l.org/rules/league-rules/

http://esea.net/index.php?s=content&d=league_rules_tf2#Settings

http://www.cevo.com/index.php?page=div&id=397&func=rules#section_24.30

http://www.ugcleague.com/home_tf26.cfm (look at the sidebar on the right)

http://www.esl.eu/eu/tf2/6on6/league/season5/rules/#wdh_Interchangeable_weapons

http://www.teamwarfare.com/rules.asp?set=Team+Fortress+2+NA+League#9

http://www.teamwarfare.com/rules.asp?set=Team+Fortress+2+NA+Ladders#7

http://ozfortress.com/showthread.php?p=725296

 

Aside from etf2l's medlocks-only and ozfortress's objectively retarded "Allowed: Sandvich, Gloves of Running Urgently" whitelist, every other prominent comp TF2 around the world has pyro/spy unlocks. Poor reasoning? No, I'm actually pretty well informed about the state of unlocks the world over, thanks, although I'd like to ask the same of you at this point: Were you aware of how TF2 comp unlocks worldwide were before I linked you to them?

 

I digress. Looking at a lopsided whitelist like AFL's just makes me sad. Whitelists and blacklists in comp TF2 exist for one reason: balance. By not allowing any pyro/spy unlocks your whitelist just tars an entire class with the same brush, and that demonstrates a shallow understanding about the class's core mechanics.

 

And what's this nonsense about "white list that nata came up with"? Is it a one-man show? Does he singlehandedly decide what gets in the whitelist and what doesn't? You guys actually have a community consensus about this, right? Right?

 

At any rate, stop taking offence on nata's behalf. I only brought it up because it seems like you guys are stuck in vanilla like it's 2007, and what justifications I've read/heard about (from tharnos, talked to him once about this) so far aren't very convincing at all; I'm bringing it up in this thread because I haven't exactly seen encouraging/non-condescending attitudes from the majority of those posting here, and it's tangentially related to the subject at hand.

 

But it doesn't matter anyway, I'm just a random 500+ hours newbie pubstar who started earlier this year, right? An unknown outsider that dares to not kowtow to his seniors, something along those lines? Same song and dance.

 

-.- whaat. my post wasn't even arguing against you. Ad hominem only applies when i am using it to base my facts on. eg. A is wrong because A is a murderer. Which i am not doing. please don't use terms you do not fully understand. I was merely describing my observations of your posts.

 

LOL I'm not entirely sure you understand the fallacies either. My bad' date=' I was thinking of poisoning the well, which is ad hominem's cousin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well Anyway! Come back when you understand how truth claims work, we're done here.

[/quote']

 

noted.