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Se7en

AFA4EVER

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To be frank, I think the AFA still faces it's fair share of issues, but it has been extremely helpful for beginners like me. Being able to grow with a group of similarly skilled people allows for a bit more breathing space than with a normal pug, the last one I played with Kig and the rest resulted in me fucking up big time, due to the faster pace at which the match was going at. I ended up dropping out and speccing after I realised I simply wasn't good enough. I still need some time to understand the game and how to apply myself, and I think the AFA should stay for the purpose of allowing us amateurs to grow into our chosen roles. It's been good so far, but I notice games become unbalanced real fast when experienced players come into the game, in which it quickly devolves into "who can pick the best first". From what I've heard from a teammate, these things happen more often these days, with 4 experienced players on one team, and afa regs on the other. Another case (might not be related) was that experienced players stacked when the team med picked them and ended the game pretty quickly.

 

Iunno, just thought that this should be looked into.

No point in AFA if team meds pick experienced ones just for convenience's sake.

 

Kudos to the people keeping AFA running though, it's been a good place to get that rush, and to work with different people.

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You can't expect ur pace to increase unless u play with better people. Being kept in ur bubble u might think u're fast enough but it just might not be. I honestly think u'll learn more playing with experienced players. Rollout etc are to be practiced on ur own time n not in a pug, those are fundamentals n u do not need 11 others to watch u rollout. Enforce e list n everyone gets to play. If someone doesn't it's e responsibility for those in e server to enforce.

Don't be afraid of being rolled, it's part of e game or 'initiation' in some sense. Most of e older players went through tt. I know my team was rolled 6maps on our very first game n many more after.

 

For e newer teams, real glad tt u guys are taking ur game to e next level. If you guys want a team to scrim with, look up se7en, 2ragic or me (6x) n we'll be more than happy to play with u guys n go through e mistakes after e map if u guys want. I promise my team won't troll.

All the best to e new teams out there I hope u guys stick it through. It's real tough starting out in e scrim scene just endure e losses, it will be difficult to but u'll see the results soon after. Raging at each other is part n parcel, so just chill once e burst is over.

 

Tldr : have fun, not war

6x #

Xoxoxo

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There was a chance for AFA participants to play merely players of similar skill level. That chance blew when certain comp morons decided to alias and get their first win ever in AFA pugs. All these "play much better teams, get rolled, learn better' thing is getting on my nerves. You don't get better by playing stronger teams in which you get rolled in 8 minutes. You only learn when you think back and see what, why and HOW your team was lacking and how the opponents played. AFA participants do not have the capability to get rolled, then slowly reflect on how they can improve or the rationale behind certain plays of the opponents. Sorry if I might be offending anyone but consistently getting rolled and not knowing how to improve will be disastrous in the long run. The worst thing that might happen is for these remnants of AFA puggers start EMULATING plays without knowing the rationale behind it. Then it would start another cycle of pure retarded strats/no strat at all as most of our teams are famous for.

 

If certain players had not been dicks and purposely screwed AFA pugs up, it would have worked. It barely got to a week since launch and it's been transformed into something just ridiculous. Who's here to decide which players are in div1 or 2? What criterions are we using?

 

Previously when AFA was still AFA, I had the motivation and drive to actually hop in the servers and sincerely help the players who truly wanted to learn. They had fun, they learnt. Now whenever I wanna start jumping into the server and mentor for abit I see some familiar competitive players' names I just lost all drive because after speccing for 10 mins or so, it becomes apparent that they merely outright carry, frag and that's it. No mentoring involved amidst countless whining and unhappiness among the AFA players (sorry I had to give an example, p_assword)

 

No offense div, when you demoed in the server which stated FFA yet disallowed division 1 players, did you take time and effort off to honestly mentor the guys or were you playing to up your game, to frag maybe? I remember you outscoring the medic. The peeps weren't too happy with you were they? Would the community classify u as div 1 since you're from m. ? I honestly don't know and this is where the line is blurred.

 

Tl;dr: good luck AFA peeps. Soz if I stopped showing up to mentor, I couldnt find the motivation to mentor amongst a bunch of DM dicks. I'll still be around if u need separate mentoring. To the rest of the comp players, grow a pair and play teams your own standard.

 

Lastly, post isn't directed to anyone. Isn't meant to offensive either. Merely thoughts of mine. Sorry in advance.

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hey everyone. what 6x said is really true. sure i support the aims of afa 100 percent but more and more(according to the forum) i find the need of proper scrims with better teams much more urgent and necessary. The point of AFA is actually to eliminate the need for afa. to create a community of accepting individuals and resistant teams so that newer players next time wld not need something like the afa to put them thru the ropes. I wish AFA players recognise this and play with this purpose in mind. its not about just winning. we as a community sustain each other, and everyone have to play their part.


in reply to yuko's post. I agree with what yuko has said. And i support AFA still being only for newer players. but these players have to hve some initiative to start scrimming soon.

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^+1

alot of them formed teams but they are not showing any effort to improve imo,

seriously, team happyface and epicgaming, you guys got each other, why cant you just hook up and scrim, all it takes is a few minutes of logistics

 

also, AFA peeps , in my opinion, are just pugging, winning/losing and lol-ing/raging,with the same people making the same mistakes after so many matches(not pointing fingers, I'm just stating what i experienced, even I'm guilty of it sometimes...........ok fine most of the time :<)

 

maybe its the pugs i play, but i rarely see post game reflections taking place(unless it was me bitching at others for doing wrong things under circumstances)

for AFA peeps to get to a stage where the medic(or anybody else in sense) does not need to stop screaming obvious things to teammates, i daresay its gonna be difficult.some of them don't even do the simple things properly, like pick fast, don't waste time(improving), start mumble before joining server/download and setup mumble,i won't hesitate and name people : <> , its not just my opinion here

 

finally, maybe it's me but i have a strange feeling that ex-AFA is becoming stale, i support the idea of allowing veteran(div1) player a chance to play, since their plays are the ones we should really try to learn from and reflect upon, also rolls i think make the losing team more reflective of their actions, (like how/why did we lose, what can we do so that we can be less busy being humiliated and start winning, and lastly, that *insert pro here* is too godlike :S, how did he roll us and how can we put up more of a fight)

 

if it was a loss by 1/2 points, i betcha the losing peeps would go "meh, 1/2 points, maybe our DM skillz not leetz enoughz, or maybe we picked wrongly,plus some mistakes/misses here and there and everywhere, hell, next round surely play more seriously, but then, it was a good(close) game, so ya... nvm"

 

and then off to the next map they go...

 

maybe we could find some way to implement a karma system for the pros who play there using steamid or community id as such, like maybe starting a thread for us to +1 mentors and -1 troll-pros so that we know the identity of those who come in simply to frag/troll

i'm being extremely optimistic regarding the number of sincere mentors out there, hopefully branny isn't the only one making an effort to come in to help us noobs

 

tl;dr: happyface stop mass recruiting and start training the whole bunch of members

AFA people start reflecting upon mistakes/losses and start improving, don't treat it like a pub 6v6

i agree with 6. give pros a chance, i feel playing with them makes me improve faster,

also, implement some kind of karma tracking system to spot mentors and potential troll bans?

 

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Lets simplify things. The AFA Pug is to introduce people to competitive gaming and to form a larger community that is more accommodating and supportive. And not for people to develop into Div 1 players. Do that in your teams and scrims.

 

If you want to improve beyond that. Its up to you. Just hook up scrims with better teams. Easy.

So complicated for what. We have normal pug servers back up. If you want to play with better people, join those servers. Those who don't, stay in AFA pug, we don't object.

 

In my opinion, all these problems started off with better players wanting to play in the AFA pug servers, come on guys, I know we as a community should not be divided, but just leave them alone unless you are really willing to help and mentor. Goodwill goes a long way.

 

Its the plan from the start, and all these people overcomplicating things is getting really frustrating and confusing.

 


Oh since TL:DRs are so popular nowadays. Here is mine : STOP FUCKING WITH THE RECIPE BEFORE EVEN TASTING THE BROTH.

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I'd like to bury the hatchet on this discussion in as concise of a manner as possible.

 

A few things to take note before we get into the state of AFA/post-AFA as we see it now:

 

1. The Academy was meant as an event, a one day occurrence, which means that AFA as a concept and as a physical entity has a shelf life. Post AFA, the server, wherever it may be located, is to revert to a conventional PUG server.

 

2. Remember what a PUG server is meant for. It’s a Pick-Up Game server. This idea entails that random players, anyone, can join a game, get picked, and play in an otherwise unscripted 6v6 scenario.

 

I’ll put aside the issues with management, which for reasons ranging from lack of time due to personal commitments to disillusionment, and call a spade for what it is. The core of the problem is, and has always been in the past, attributed to a few bad apples. Imbalanced picks, senseless stomps and laments of lack of mentorship have contributed to the situation we have now. Taking decisive action on these players feels like the natural enforcement role of Admins, but as we all know, the Admins can’t be around all the time. The lack of a governing rule set in determining what is right and what shouldn’t be allowed goes back to lack of decisive action from the management crew, and in that absence, I’ve had to step in to perform litmus tests on restrictions.

 

Sandvich Fort was created partly to move on from AFA, simply because AFA has run its course, and players, whether they are ready or not, have to face reality and embrace pugging for what it is – rolling with random teammates who may or may not be good. The move to ban Division 1 players from playing in Sandvich Fort is a reflection of majority sentiment, one which I loath, but one I begrudgingly catered to, if only to serve to prove a point. Or rather, points. And the points are simply this:

 

1. The calls from some of you to ban competitive players, or in particular, Division 1 players, are misguided, simply because it is due to the efforts of Div 1 players that many had the opportunity to receive mentorship in the first place. To state that competitive players are contributing to the problem is akin to painting the entire crowd with the same tainted brush, and it serves to undermine the work that has been put in by those who did help, during and after AFA.

 

2. You do not deserve mentorship anymore than you deserve to ask for competitive players to be filtered out. Remember that most top tier competitive players earned their stripes through trial by fire – they did not have the luxury of having an Academy to coach them along as they found their way to better teams, so complaints about lack of mentorship is an entitled request one should be ashamed of. The general lack of appreciate despite the mentorship of a few is frankly shocking.

 

3. Competitive gameplay by nature weeds out the weak, you’re just going to have to accept that. It is a tough environment to break into – there is a reason why the top tier teams remain as the top, and skill levels between Division 1 and 2 teams remain distinct. In other words, consider what it is that you’re committing yourself to, and remember, it weeds out the weak, so in essence, don’t be weak, and stay above the curve.

 

There’s not been much to consider in the case of Sandvich Fort in terms of how we are going to manage this situation. The solution is clear – live up to the pugging spirit. This means, it’s a true free for all. Stomping and unfair picks can and will happen, but that doesn’t mean the acts of a rotten few has to put you off pugging altogether.

 

Stronger administration against malicious players will help to ensure harmony during picks and play, and while we cannot and should not expect the Admins to do everything for players, suffice to say, we’ll all be around to help turn the tide. There’s no one perfect system to administer this, but if we all take responsibility to work as a collective, the community can eventually move out of its comfort zone of easy, similarly-skilled environments to migrating to what the AFA set out to achieve in the first place: introduce players to pugging, and elevate their game to a competitive level. How you reach that level is entirely upon your own inititiave.

 

TL:DR Read the damn thing, it’s worth it.

 

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1. The Academy was meant as an event' date=' a one day occurrence, which means that AFA as a concept and as a physical entity has a shelf life. Post AFA, the server, wherever it may be located, is to revert to a conventional PUG server.

[/quote']

 

I'm very sure Asiafortress Academy was never meant to be an event or a one day occurrence. It was meant to school newbies in how basic competitive TF2 is like on a long term basis, whenever they wish to start.

 

So unless the purpose of AFA was changed after the opening day, will I then stand corrected. Don't blame AFA for failing, blame the people who redefined what AFA's original goal was.

 

I'm pretty sure many of the newbies will agreed that AFA has served its original purpose on introducing competitive TF2 and its learning points. If you newbies more or less understood the basics, it is time to graduate from AFA and move on to the real PUG world out there. Don't blame AFA for holding you back.

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Firstly, I agree with K.

 

Secondly, AFA has helped lots of players such as K, myself and a few others. It is just the start of getting competitive and actually more so a prologue of the basics of being competitive. So I would like to thank the people who made it possible like nmy, mm, teal, cleric, flare, emir and all the other players who mentored me and whoever else in this time.

 

I am pretty glad to see new teams such as EPIC and :C forming due to AFA and am actually in a team that is pretty new.

 

All in all, I think that the AFA did it's purpose and should be left in the past where it shall be remembered for whatever good came from it.

 

My team currently has a temporary name of tesco trollies so just pm me if you want to scrim with us EPIC and :C :)

Disclaimer: You have to tell us with at least 2 days advance notice if you want to scrim.

 

Branny, what's the best demoman hat?? :D

KABOOOOM!!!!! RATATATTATATTATA!

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Firstly' date=' I agree with K.

 

Secondly, AFA has helped lots of players such as K, myself and a few others. It is just the start of getting competitive and actually more so a prologue of the basics of being competitive. So I would like to thank the people who made it possible like nmy, mm, teal, cleric, flare, emir and all the other players who mentored me and whoever else in this time.

 

I am pretty glad to see new teams such as EPIC and :C forming due to AFA and am actually in a team that is pretty new.

 

All in all, I think that the AFA did it's purpose and should be left in the past where it shall be remembered for whatever good came from it.

 

My team currently has a temporary name of tesco trollies so just pm me if you want to scrim with us EPIC and :C :)

Disclaimer: You have to tell us with at least 2 days advance notice if you want to scrim.

 

Branny, what's the best demoman hat?? :D

KABOOOOM!!!!! RATATATTATATTATA!

[/quote']

 

Omg rufus is in tesco trollies

im so dead tomorrow night

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Admins aren't there to hold your hands the whole time nigs, the community's supposed to regulate itself. Some of you need to get your priorities straight or get your thinking caps on.

 

 

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I'm very sure Asiafortress Academy was never meant to be an event or a one day occurrence. It was meant to school newbies in how basic competitive TF2 is like on a long term basis' date=' whenever they wish to start.

 

So unless the purpose of AFA was changed after the opening day, will I then stand corrected. Don't blame AFA for failing, blame the people who redefined what AFA's original goal was.

 

[/quote']

 

You should consider the fact that you were not part of the conversation that took place between emir and myself, which led to The Agentcy helping to host the AFA in the first place. Neither are you aware of the arrangement for AFA in terms of The Agentcy's role as facilitator and its shelf life. Consider yourself corrected.

 

This pretty much makes statements like this (blame the people who redefined what AFA's original goal was) a distinct slap across the face for those who have helped your crew when you were in a desperate situation for hosting. Again, do some fact checking prior, yeah?

 

As for blaming the AFA, I really don't think I need to go into this, for the situation pretty much speaks for itself. My post was not intended as a shot in the dark against AF, but if you're going to have the audacity to make statements like this, you're plainly inviting criticism and feedback you're not ready to receive. Where's the mentorship schedule? At what point did anyone from AF step in to correct the situation which had been festering for a week? Where exactly is this so-called sustained, recurring plan for AFA? Where were the post-AFA rule sets which would've helped us all govern the server better? Do I need to go on?

 

As a brief update, the server has been revised to become a Beginners PUG server to better serve the community's needs. Competitive players are refrained, rather than banned from playing, as again, we wouldn't want to paint the entire bunch with the same tainted brush. It will be up to the community assisted by the Administrators to help weed out those who are disruptive. I hope this best preserves the spirit of AFA, and will continue to allow new(ish) players to grow.

 

Competitive players, as always, you have the choice of Sigma, among others, to play in.

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Let me clarify with you mr. K. You have no idea what's going on in the private admin forums. I've asked emir, who was planning the event whether he had all those covered, which he said he did. Don't accuse me of not covering all these with him when you too know nothing. If you would like a copy of that thread, feel free to ask me.

 

Secondly, yes you may run the servers for this "event" and the people are grateful but none of you ever announced such an arrangement publicly, how would people know it would be a one day off event when it was planned for a long term basis. Worse is the asiafortress.com staff were never updated. Why so? Look at all the promos for afa on the website, it all referred that this will be a long running event. Why are changes done without the public knowing? Is your arrangements with emir so secretive that none of you wanna update anyone about it publicly? That's is why the facts were never clarified.

 

Lastly, the 2nd paragraph onwards is meant for the detractors mainly. Why take such offense? Besides, the goal was to school newbs in competitive tf2. How is that a slap to your face?

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Lets all just relax and take the situation now as it is. Agent K has been under no obligation to help us in terms of the servers and I think first of all there should be some due gratitude to him. thelousy of course is also just arguing for the sake of Asiafortress and of course that should be understood. But I really hope this will not spiral into another problem which precipitated events during AFL season 4.

 

All these other issues, while pressing, should be treated with professionalism. I do not think anyone is trying to get personal and defensive. I also think EVERYBODY involved in this discussion, in one way or another wants the Asian community to be successful. So lets just take a step back and look at the future since what has happened cannot really be changed. And I don't think back and forth rebuttals and arguments will solve as many problems as working together.

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WAIT. lol. firstly, thanking k for hosting the server and allowing us the chance to play, secondly, asking thlousy to calm down, thirdly, telling austinrufuseo that we could have a scrims most likely after the EOY exams, (17 days weee), and finally, about AFA.

 

yes. afa, the topic which has grown from a seed to a full blown tree with durains dropping on issac newtons's head everynow and then. so what? you ask. whats so important about it that gets people quarreling? it is the sole event, until now which i heard of, that gradually opens up the exclusive and private competitive tf2 groups, those which could roll over a pub server on a ratio of 20 kills to 1 death, to those who are new, that wants in.

 

so, if i might, problem, 1. pros, allowed in pug or not? solution currently: yes, except div 1 players, could be changing to become all allowed.

2.if pros allowed, what would become of learning? solution : YOURSELF. YES. looking back, at the rare times i made it to spec not the last, and playing as a solly, getting screamed at was not too fun, but certainly, it helped me learn how rollouts were during pugs. like K said, competition weeds the weak. those whos egos are like mirrors which break on a flick, you will stay in AFA for a long time. you will never go into the normal scene, and likely never improve. however, there is the case of a steamroll being too much, and the whole game won under 5 minutes. then what would you think? the game being wasted? best thing to do? get recordings. then see how they get to mid that quickly. and learn. most players cant be bothered by this and say 'oh noooo. practise makes perfect!' fcuk that. you could steamroll newbies for 5 hours and not learn a thing. score 1st round : 15. score 2nd round: 30 score 3rd round: 45 score. so? it dosent really help. playing against higher leveled players trains you faster, as you learn how they gel together easier. i support yuko's side though, about DM dicks changing names and coming in to frag people. that is them. we cant stop it can we? after all, the admin team is small and busy enough.

 

 

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whoa whoa. i'm not sure whether to put a stop to this drama or let it continue (since our forum visits only increase whenever there's e-drama goin on here).

 

to clarify:

the entire debacle with the servers happened the week preceding the afa launch. very simply, what happened was that i couldn't confirm the use of an eclub server for afa, and i approached agent K to host the server, who very kindly consented and helped to set up the server on such short notice. although afa was indeed intended to be a long-term thing, what transpired in the discussion was that Agent K could not host the server indefinitely. I agreed to this, seeing as to how it was only fair, considering that K was already doing us a huge favour by providing a server.

 

it's probably my fault that afa didn't turn out the way i intended it to (as a long term thing). i accept full responsibility for this. the fact of the matter is, an initiative like this requires heavy monitoring by the admins, something which i unfortunately couldn't sustain. perhaps it was a flaw in the planning, in that i made it too contingent upon admin presence to keep things running smoothly. perhaps i didn't appoint enough reliable admins to keep it going well. perhaps it was bad luck that the eclub pickup servers were taken down last week, which drove the regular community to invade afa servers to quench their thirst for pugs. perhaps my trust in the community was misplaced; i thought that the community would at least be mature enough to resist the temptation to troll newbies and ruin their pug experience.

 

whatever the reason was, the bottom line is that afa didn't exactly play out the way i thought it would. the way i see it, agent K here saw the problem that was stirring (with regular players aliasing to play with newbies), and he took the initiative to put things right, or at least, make things better. i have no qualms with that; in fact, i'm grateful that he stepped in to straighten things out (wow looks like i do owe you a lot now K). ultimately, i'm not too concerned whether or not this is "an asiafortress thing", or "an agentcy thing", or whatever. we're all a community of tf2 players in this region, and i'm perfectly fine (hell, i'd be delighted) if someone were to step up and fix any problems which they noticed. there are too many backseat drivers/armchair critics in this community, and not enough players actually willing to step up and effect change.

 

lousy, you'll notice that i didnt mention a single word about agentcy servers in the admin forums. this was all very last minute (1-2 days before the event), and i had a ton of other things to settle, and updating the admin forums was the last thing on my priority list. and why shouldn't it be? take a look at the afa planning thread, and count the number of people who posted in it. it was a fucking monologue between me myself and i, and only occasionally did i get any external input (from you) in the form of constant reminders (which, as much as i'm grateful for, were completely unnecessary). the only other significant contribution from the entire admin team was the namelist you put together on googledocs (and again, i'm grateful to you for putting this together.) So tell me again, why i should have even bothered to update the private admin forums, when i was the only person who seemed to read or care?

 

oh and to all mods, please, don't delete these posts. best to have some transparency so people know what's going on. there you have it folks, our community severely needs reliable people to step up and volunteer to help out with the running of tournaments, events, etc. otherwise, we pretty much won't have much of a community left.

 

 

tl;dr, shit is all my fault. okay?

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I AM MASTURBATING AT HOW MY THREAD HAS GARNERED THIS MUCH ATTENTION.

on the other hand, it's time for a... group hug.

 

/cue purpledubstep dinosaur

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It is definitely NOT all your fault. Thats quite ridiculous. You are the one who worked your ass off for this and when things didn't go your way, it is because of unforeseen circumstances that you could not have anticipated anyway.

 

Sorry I just sound like a armchair critic right now, but as much as I want to help, (which I am planning to right after my A levels end) I can't due to the importance and urgency of the upcoming exams which I am having.

 

Anyway, in terms of support for the admins and emir especially, I personally am 100% behind all of your efforts and believe the rest of the community should be too.

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Emir, it's great that you took AFA and made it to what it was. Seriously good job. I personally appreciate that But those "reminders" were in hope that you would know what had to be covered and if not, could be discussed there.

 

However you said, "chill bra, I've got it covered." which I then, left you alone to handle AFA cause I trusted that you could do it. But apparently now it is made known that I didn't do much except "remind" you over something and helped you with the googledoc when you were obviously preoccupied with other important stuff so that you could do team allocation and all with it which was kind of planned initially. This is after that the "I got it covered" bit.

 

But that aside, great work on the whole event again, especially with all the last minute hiccups. And also to Agent K for generously providing his servers for the former AFA pug server (current FFA PUG)and the current Sigma PUG server. And all the mentors as well who provided for the newbs as well as the newbs as well who participated and hopefully had learn the basics ofcompetiive tf2.

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BWT Se7en. This was my plan from the start, I never had an AFA server in mind, what I wanted to do was have a club that has organized events every few days.

 

Emir was a bit excited :S (This is 78% a joke)

 

EDIT: I told K about all this and we are trying to work it out. I'm pretty busy though

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Hey, for me, AFA has been a success. We have pugs going on from around 3 to 12 (and sometimes all the way to 3), and the new players ARE improving, even though some may be whining about rolls and what not, they are still without a doubt, improving.

 

Interesting how this thread title is AFA4EVER, when in a way, AFA has died. But it has served its purpose. The competitive community has received a huge influx of new blood. C'mon, there are people begging admins through mumble to kick idle players because they want to get into the server.

 

Now, I have absolutely nothing against div1 players playing in the server. Play against/with stronger players, get stronger faster. This fact of life is present in nearly every shonen manga out there. But I have a suggestion. This idea may be wildly radical, but in the interest of balanced games, is it possible for the good players who know who they are, to balance themselves out between teams? AFA med captains that don't recognize the best players pick weak ass teams that get rolled and those games are no fun to watch nor to play, for either team.

 

Well I know I can't speak for everyone, but this is my personal opinion. Wiping a team at mid, capping 4th quickly and then ubering in to take last is just so... boring.

 

Lastly, AFA may be "dead", but mentors are still around, and I'm still getting tips and lessons from them. So although class time is over, the learning does not stop. And it should not stop for all of us, irregardless of how good we are, there will still be room for improvement. I'd like the asian competitive tf2 scene to be as respected as Eu or NA, is that too big and presumptuous a dream?

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