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Otuzi

AFA pugs

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i feel really bad.. lol. for me as med cap' date=' i always pick from list, then from my preffered list of players, then people who i recognise, and then people who i dont. ><[hr']

Suggestion:

 

like what a couple of friends and i have discussed. teams should not be filled with total noobs. mentors and newbies should play alongside' date=' learning through its practicality. only then, they'll be able to absorb better.

purely coaching them from mumble, too darn theoretical. 3mentors 3newbies per team. or at least 2 mentors, max 3.

the way i look at things, it will be a steeper learning curve playing with the mentors, but it puts them in a more competitive spirit and environment. play together, and thereafter, seek and after-action review.

 

edit: grammar errors, yikes.

[/quote']

 

the thing is, aside from the (if) unbalanced-ness, is that some of the mentors dont really care about the newbies. they rush off during rollout to mid and do a slaughterfest, then wait for us to catch up and then tell us to cap mid point while they move up to do more killing.

 

there's some srs problem there....

 

mentors..killing?

what?

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the person lah. You guys must enforce pug rules. Also' date=' if you want you can kindly request Agent K to do that for u. But i don't know.

 

Just remember, there are rules. And a pug must be played with those rules in mind. Its not just some arbitary thing. These are actually official rules. If people dick around it also means a lousier gaming experience for those who want to play seriously.

[/quote']

 

PUG rules have been clearly stated by yuko in the recent threads and no offence here but do not keep relying on admins to do the job in enforcing rules. Players should enforce it as well. (so ding, don't pull in agent k's name easily, its pretty difficult for him to handle many requests at a time, hope you understand) and yes, players themselves should respect others in order to have a better gaming experience.

That being said, to all you puggers, afa or not, please help keep the gaming experience for all enjoyable!

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nono.. he suggested we have mentors AND newbies in a AFA pug team. but then i think that if the mentors get ahead of themselves, reach mid way before anyone else does, then kills the entire enemy team. after all, you cant expect 3 mentors playing medic tgt right.. 2 will either be scout,solly, or demo, and a good player in either of these each 3 classes can do alot of damage.

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Alrighty, for the lazy people again who doesn't like to find threads.

 

http://asiafortress.com/thread-1763.html

 

This links contain the rules modified previously from the e-club pug servers' rules to suit more unlockables used across some of the other TF2 communities. Please do read and understand what has changed. This applies currently to the Agentcy servers. Spread the word now.

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teal, what do i do if my pocket solly jumps off to midfight, leaving me in the house(badlands) all alone. should i go out and risk myself to heal my team, or run back and risk the whole team dying? O.O

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teal' date=' what do i do if my pocket solly jumps off to midfight, leaving me in the house(badlands) all alone. should i go out and risk myself to heal my team, or run back and risk the whole team dying? O.O

[/quote']

 

if the spam ain't bad and there's someone close to the fleeing points, run in to heal the nearest person. also bitch at your pocket for abandoning you. be aware of who's dead at this point so you can decide whether to fall back or not.

 

if the spam is bad, tell them stop being suicidal and fall back if your team is dropping like flies. at the same time, run to the staircase towards midpoint (avoid the exit of the house to mid point) and heal those who are low while fleeing towards the staircase.

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the person lah. You guys must enforce pug rules. Also' date=' if you want you can kindly request Agent K to do that for u. But i don't know.

 

Just remember, there are rules. And a pug must be played with those rules in mind. Its not just some arbitary thing. These are actually official rules. If people dick around it also means a lousier gaming experience for those who want to play seriously.

[/quote']

 

PUG rules have been clearly stated by yuko in the recent threads and no offence here but do not keep relying on admins to do the job in enforcing rules. Players should enforce it as well. (so ding, don't pull in agent k's name easily, its pretty difficult for him to handle many requests at a time, hope you understand) and yes, players themselves should respect others in order to have a better gaming experience.

That being said, to all you puggers, afa or not, please help keep the gaming experience for all enjoyable!

 

My first suggestion was for them themselves to enforce the rules. But it seems like they cant really do it. I wouldn't like to trouble the admins. But the thing is, when there are not enough players who actively lookout for the rules or enforce the rules, there must be someone of authority to step in once in a while. Of course they shouldn't ask for Agent K everytime something bad happens. In Fact, they shouldnt ask for Agent K at all. But the thing is, I just do not think they are at that stage yet. Many of them are still putting "fun" beyond "discipline" and for competitive style gaming, you sorta have to have discipline.

 

So right now, what i mean is that, at this early stage, maybe other mentors or whatever can also help enforce the rule. But the most important thing is to stop this trend of offclassing and ignoring class limits ASAP. Because we do not want AFA pugs to become some retarded 6 v 6 pub game. I hope you get what i mean.

 

 

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erh. happens before(not too often i hope) but sometimes we have stackers. YES. people who come into the game, then join a team, then play like its just another server. its not so troublesome when admins are not around, but it HELL IS. when they arent, and most of us who are too lazy to use the votekick command or dont know how to, just have no choice but to let him play, then the other team complains and gets another player to join, and so on so forth. :D

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Tbh' date=' the players themselves should vote kick the idiot who off-classes like a bitch.

[/quote']

 

I think you are missing the point here. Right now so many of them have this mentality that it is "OK" to offclass. Because it is "more fun". So if many of them have this mentality, they would not want to kick the idiots would they? I am pretty sure there are serious people too. But i do not think it is the sizable majority at the moment.

 

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Well, I guess this is the part where the admins have to step in to slap some wrist. I understand that the aim is to get the new blood to be self-sufficient, but you gotta hold their hands first to get them going.

 

A warning system could be implemented for off-classing if this happens more often, like a 3 strike system or you'll receive a few days ban/a week/2 weeks etc. But its too early to implement that now, probably some time down the road.

 

Also understandably, is that the admins themselves are overwhelmed with RL or requests and are unable to deal with these issues. Well, that's what happens when there's only a few admins around to deal with it I guess? So yea, whether you like it or not, the admins gotta be pretty active for the first few weeks to iron out any of these underlying issues. I'm quite sure the new blood will get more serious as the time passes as the "fun" ones leave and the "serious" ones remains.

 

Anyway, the aim of AFA is to get the new blood introduced to PUGS so if the "fun" one can't deal with it, it is just not meant to be for them.

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Tbh' date=' the players themselves should vote kick the idiot who off-classes like a bitch.

[/quote']

 

I think you are missing the point here. Right now so many of them have this mentality that it is "OK" to offclass. Because it is "more fun". So if many of them have this mentality, they would not want to kick the idiots would they? I am pretty sure there are serious people too. But i do not think it is the sizable majority at the moment.

 

 

after all, no one knows who is playing as the main solly/demo/scout right? so if im a main solly who dosent know anything abt any other class than solly and sniper, and there are already 2 sollys, it makes sense for them to offclass..

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Tbh' date=' the players themselves should vote kick the idiot who off-classes like a bitch.

[/quote']

 

I think you are missing the point here. Right now so many of them have this mentality that it is "OK" to offclass. Because it is "more fun". So if many of them have this mentality, they would not want to kick the idiots would they? I am pretty sure there are serious people too. But i do not think it is the sizable majority at the moment.

 

 

after all, no one knows who is playing as the main solly/demo/scout right? so if im a main solly who dosent know anything abt any other class than solly and sniper, and there are already 2 sollys, it makes sense for them to offclass..

 

I don't think you get what i mean Otuzi. What i mean by offclassing is playing classes like pyro and heavy and all that when the situation obviously do not call for it. Another thing i am talking about is one side all playing scout, or not complying to competitive class limit rules. Make sure for every pug, People follow strictly the standard class limits of 1 medic 1 demo 2 soldiers and 2 scouts. And please make it clear to

them that if they want to "Situationally Offclass" into the utility classes. do it sparingly and only with the people playing scout or maybe soldier. Demos and medics should never disappear from a team.

 

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The problem with the whole thing is mentality.

 

What you see as the more experienced players "rushing off and killing everything" might simply be them doing their job as normal. Of course, I'm aware of some people intentionally going to AFA pugs to rape with zero intention to teach. But other than those idiots, you cant expect teaching to be done on the spot during a game, it doesnt work that way. Neither should you expect players to "go easy" on you guys simply because you're new. I can't really comment on this cuz I haven't actually been there. Whatever the case, dying or getting 5-0ed usually teaches you more than living and capping. To me it doesn't mean anything if a pug team gets 4-3. When a scrim team gets 4-3 thats good of course because you know your core 6 is growing.

 

Secondly, if you don't know how to do something, the spirit should be to TRY yourself. That is really the only way to truly learn- experimenting and observing. That is what the game is about right? That is how one gets better in every other game or sport? Practice with a conscious mind aimed at improvement. Only when you hit a real roadblock you should ask mentors for their advice, which should be modified to fit your own playstyle even. If you keep swallowing whatever others tell you, you'd only do it because everyone else is doing as opposed to doing it because you know the reasons behind it. You're gimping your own gamesense.

 

Thirdly, there is a difference, as ding mentioned, between retarded 24/7 offclassing (that is to play util classes) and playing a class that isn't your main. For starters I would highly recommend keeping your head open to every class. Even if you are "main solly" you shouldnt be afraid of playing scout or medic or demo. One way or the other knowledge of the other competitve classes will help you play your main. No doubt you might be worse at it and that might keep the team back but there is no choice since like you said there are already two soldiers. If you make it clear that you are new to X and Y class and you're only playing it cuz nobody else would then nobody should give you shit for sucking. If they still tell you you're bad when its clear you don't play that class then I don't think you should be hanging out with such douchebags. Don't insist on scouting only or sollying only it just makes you look quite retarded. After all its just a pug.

 

I would highly advise against utilities until you've gotten a decent grasp of your scout/solly. Medic and demo shouldnt even think about it.

 

Finally, if you encounter douchebags, try to sort it out in a civil manner (or not, whatever). The point is, yelling at admins or qqing on the forums should not be an option. Only if matters get out of hand should you contact an admin nicely.

 

At the end of the day, the nature of competitive games itself weeds out the weakest and only caters to the strongest. What you learn at AFA shouldn't be strategies or how to aim, AFA should teach you the attitudes you need to learn them yourself. Tactics will change and what is viable today may be completely retarded in the next update which adds my dick as an unlock or maybe when valve makes another hole in a random wall in gran; tactics will change but the desire to adapt and stay on top won't.

 

tl;dr lol stop qq on forums noob

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My 2 doorlas:

 

Se7en has some good points. Creating an utopia of lower level pug players in their small bubble is gonna backfire big time in the future. What motivates and interests newbies to learn faster is watching the pros do amazing shit in the game which then the newbies get really impressed with, and then pick up their pace in the next game. I'm pretty sure everyone who's watched Ronaldo or Messi play football wants to emulate them or try to play harder. So you will have a system where both sides will build up a give and take sort of relationship, rookies learn and catch up faster, pros learn to be compassionate and patient with the new players. However, for this system to work imo, you should only allow pros who have MICROPHONES (use in-game or mumble or whatever) to mix with the rookie pugs. In the past 3 years of TF2 Uhhsian pug/scrim, this has always been the biggest weakness of the scrim scene. TF2's heavily team-based gameplay, even more so than CS or the other hardcore team games, thus you NEED people who can constantly communicate, text-based chat just doesn't cut it for this level of teamplay. Besides, having mics make pugs/scrims more interesting.

 

Next thing: accountability. Y'all finally acknowledge the fact that there are some shitheads in the pug scene who intentionally does retarded shit (off-class, trollchangemap etc) all the time, but why the hell are you guys so afraid of pointing fingers or being confrontational? If there's a fuckhead doing these things, call him out or just list out his name in community sites like this etc. The pro asian tf2 community is exceptional at gossip and calling out such names behind everyone's back but no one wants to take charge and weed out these guys directly.

 

 

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My 2 doorlas:

 

Se7en has some good points. Creating an utopia of lower level pug players in their small bubble is gonna backfire big time in the future. What motivates and interests newbies to learn faster is watching the pros do amazing shit in the game which then the newbies get really impressed with' date=' and then pick up their pace in the next game. I'm pretty sure everyone who's watched Ronaldo or Messi play football wants to emulate them or try to play harder. So you will have a system where both sides will build up a give and take sort of relationship, rookies learn and catch up faster, pros learn to be compassionate and patient with the new players. However, for this system to work imo, you should only allow pros who have MICROPHONES (use in-game or mumble or whatever) to mix with the rookie pugs. In the past 3 years of TF2 Uhhsian pug/scrim, this has always been the biggest weakness of the scrim scene. TF2's heavily team-based gameplay, even more so than CS or the other hardcore team games, thus you NEED people who can constantly communicate, text-based chat just doesn't cut it for this level of teamplay. Besides, having mics make pugs/scrims more interesting.

 

Next thing: accountability. Y'all finally acknowledge the fact that there are some shitheads in the pug scene who intentionally does retarded shit (off-class, trollchangemap etc) all the time, but why the hell are you guys so afraid of pointing fingers or being confrontational? [b']If there's a fuckhead doing these things, call him out or just list out his name in community sites like this etc.[/b] The pro asian tf2 community is exceptional at gossip and calling out such names behind everyone's back but no one wants to take charge and weed out these guys directly.

 

 

 

u

 

 

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i think playing with pros improves gameplay. but what do i know

 

thats true but look at you............................

 

 

hmmmm.

 

 

 

look at yourself! attempting so hard to be a chick that you end up turning into one. ouch

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i think playing with pros improves gameplay. but what do i know

 

thats true but look at you............................

 

 

hmmmm.

 

 

 

look at yourself! attempting so hard to be a chick that you end up turning into one. ouch

 

man. dude. You should just stop now. Remember, no use if your life involves actively making other people hate you.

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i think playing with pros improves gameplay. but what do i know

 

thats true but look at you............................

 

 

hmmmm.

 

 

 

look at yourself! attempting so hard to be a chick that you end up turning into one. ouch

 

man. dude. You should just stop now. Remember' date=' no use if your life involves actively making other people hate you.

[/quote']

 

haha thats where you go wrong, this part isnt my life. and i love you ding.:>

 

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allow me to quote from another post of mine first:

 

first and foremost' date=' i must apologise for my infrequent appearances in the afa pugs and in the community in general; as i've told others, real life has caught up to me. i've tried my best to ensure that there will be admins who can take over my job in my absence, but i'd also like to thank everyone who's tried to keep afa pugs as clean and as newb-friendly as possible.

 

...

 

anyone who's been in mumble or seen an afa pug can probably attest to what i mean. some of these new players are quickly getting a grasp of the game; hell, some of them understand advantage-disadvantage better than i do. it's especially heartening to see at least 5 out of 6 players in a team make the effort to get into a mumble channel, for the purposes of communication simply during a pug. most importantly, i see some people trying to take ownership of their community. some players try their hardest to enforce rules (although sometimes it fails due to sheer number of people in the server), and going out of their way to be nice to the even newer players who are in their first pickup game.

 

...

 

in afa, i see a bunch of people willing to learn, willing to up their game, and just taking the game seriously because they really do enjoy competitive tf2 and want to see it grow.

 

[/quote']

 

let me go on to say that i'm extremely pleased with how well-received afa has been so far. once in a while, i'll check the game info for the server, and it's always very nice to see that the entire list of names playing is absolutely alien to me; it's very heartening to see so many new players trying their hand at 6v6.

 

as for the rules, the one thing i get a lot from afa players is "should this guy be allowed to play?" "isn't this guy too good?" and from the regular pug community, all i get is "can i play in this game?" "can i play here if i offclass?"

 

it's very frustrating when people keep asking these questions. we all know perfectly well that there's a HUGE grey area with regard to this issue. there is no threshold between being a newb and being a pro; i can't neatly slot you into these categories and as such, i can't safely and distinctly say "yes, you can play because you are a newb" or "no, you cannot play because you will unbalance the teams". everytime someone asks me this question, a lot of things run through my mind. will this guy ruin the game by stomping everyone else? will he be a good guide to the other players on the team? will he just be a troll and a general douche to everyone else?

 

i think most of you should know what your intentions are when you ask me whether you can play afa pugs. if you're there simply to stomp noobs into the ground and boosting your ego, then you know perfectly well you should gtfo. if you're there just to relax and try a class which you don't ordinarily play, then i'm sorry, you'll have to give way to the players who actually need the playtime to learn the ropes in 6v6 TF2. if you're there because you sincerely want to help these newer players learn so that they can ultimately be part of the larger pug community, then i believe you should also know for yourself whether you joining the game will have that effect on the players.

 

most importantly, we hope that everyone understands when we say that someone can or cannot play in the afa pug. to you, it might seem unfair that this guy gets to play, and you don't, since it seems that you're of seemingly similar standard. our admins have to use their own discretion, and we're not perfect. we try our best to make everyone happy, but remember that afa pugs are for the newbies. in return, we ask that you be more understanding of us and forgive us for our mistakes and lapses in judgement.

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i played there once just to test water

 

got raped before i can reach mid

 

 

nice peoples would play again A++

 

AFA!?!?!!! IMPOSSIBLE.

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