Enganox

Was talking with my father this afternoon about competitive gaming, and he mentioned something which made me raise my eyebrow. Apparently in some double elimination tournaments, in cases where a team got sent to a lower bracket by losing a match to the winner of the upper bracket, and then that same team goes back to face them again in the finals, the lower bracket winner has to win twice, while the upper bracket winner only has to win once, as it is a double elimination tournament after all. "The rationale is that since the tournament is indeed double elimination, it is unfair to have the W Bracket champion eliminated with its first loss. Therefore, while the W Bracket champion needs to beat the L Bracket champion only once to win the tournament, the L Bracket champion must beat the Winners' Bracket champion twice." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-elimination_tournament Under this rationale, there are probably a lot of cases where teams only got eliminated once but lost anyway. The AFC ruleset doesn't address this, so it makes me wonder if it's an oversight or perhaps there's some good reason somewhere why we don't do it the same way here? If the grand finals don't count towards double elimination, we may as well switch to a single elimination format for the whole playoffs, because why should one team be lucky enough to lose but come back from it, and not another? Here's an example: http://liquipedia.net/teamfortress/ESEA/Season_21/Invite/North_America#Playoffs In season 21, Froyo lost to Ronin in the upper bracket finals. They played the lower bracket finals, and beat Street Hoops, before going back to face Ronin again, and winning 2 BO3 series in order to win the Season 21. Similarly, in the following season 22, Ronin lost to Froyo in the upper bracket finals, before winning the lower bracket finals. Facing Froyo again in the grand finals, they beat Froyo in one BO3, and then in the deciding BO3 Froyo won the last 2 maps to win the season. TL;DR playoffs should either be fully double elimination, or fully single elimination.

Snakewater: 3-2 ABNA win http://logs.tf/1991102#76561198001641724 Badlands: 3-2 Alphadog win http://logs.tf/1991123#76561198001641724 Gullywash: 3-3 Tie http://logs.tf/1991141#76561198001641724 Gullywash Golden Cap: 1-0 ABNA win Screenshot https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379490285270597632/427801885915873280/20180325212452_1.jpg Golden cap config wasn't available, but both teams agreed before it started

http://logs.tf/1985760#76561198001641724 Reckoner ABNA 3 - 2 APU http://logs.tf/1985791#76561198001641724 Gully ABNA 3 - 1 APU

Player Name (with Steam ID & Steam URL): pronessf STEAM_1:1:120368520 http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198201002769/ Original Team or Not Currently Participating: Ogygia Destination Team: Abnormal Sodium Destination Team Division: 3 Justification or Additional Notes: Player Name (with Steam ID & Steam URL): RuDe http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198114161904 Original Team or Not Currently Participating: Abnormal Sodium Destination Team: -- Destination Team Division: -- Justification or Additional Notes: cut (he doesnt want to play)

First map 7-2 ABNA/AFE http://logs.tf/1951457#76561198001641724 Second map 4-1 ABNA/AFE http://logs.tf/1951478#76561198001641724 Good games

To be played this Saturday, 8pm GMT +8

Player Name (with Steam ID & Steam URL): RuDe http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198114161904 Original Team or Not Currently Participating: Not currently participating Destination Team: ABNA Abnormal Sodium Destination Team Division: Div 3 Justification or Additional Notes:

dis is real life footage of players being tocksick in mge servors https://youtu.be/XqSOsLoQEfc

Team Name: Abnormal Sodium Countries: Singapore, India, Philippines, Malaysia Preferred Division: 3 Team Steam Group URL: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/abnormalsodium Team Captain(s) (Name / Steam ID 32 / Profile URL): ・Enganox / STEAM_0:0:20687998 / http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198001641724/ ・Neosizzle / STEAM_0:0:135770742 / http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198231807212/ Players (Name / Steam ID 32 / Profile URL): Agust D / STEAM_0:0:120123703 / http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198200513134/ kook / STEAM_0:0:52529321 / http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198065324370/ yekoM / STEAM_0:1:39366473 / http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198038998675/ starvox / STEAM_0:0:15826579 / http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197991918886/ rubyks / STEAM_0:1:45215648 / http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198050697025/ uniqly / STEAM_0:1:65015548 / http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198090296825/ L5r0y / STEAM_0:0:105558043 / http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198171381814

^Yeah, I do wonder about the player limit. I think I get why it was lowered-- whats the point of having so many subs that those subs could make their own team? But it seems to me many players aren't interested in starting a new team, don't have the time, or feel they couldn't do it well. So that extra 2 sub slots could go to players who would have otherwise not participated in AFC at all. Just a thought.

I see. So it's mostly a judgement thing by the team itself? Rather than any set limits by Asiafortress admins, etc. TBH, I really couldn't care less about div 3 gold, its simply not my goal. All I want is for my team to get better, whether its div 3, or 2. I guess what we need is to figure out each season what the teams will be, since most teams tend to get scrambled up before the next season. I think for the most part, my team will be competitive with other top div 3 teams. And I personally really would not mind going to div 2 even if it is on the low end. Also, the thing about scrimming higher div teams is they tend to seek other teams their own div.

Curious about how many seasons most people play before going on to div 2? If you're in div 2 now or higher, how many seasons before moving up? Were you a team captain or roster member? And also, if you were a captain of a team and tried to build it up from nothing, what did it take before you felt your team was ready for the next step? Lastly, do you think in the current state of AFC, that it's still the same as it was before? Are any changes making it potentially easier or tougher to move up? I appreciate any answers. Next season is my 3rd season in Div 3 most likely, and I just want to measure it up to other players experiences to kinda get an idea of where I'm at as a team captain. Hopefully this thread will help teams in deciding what division they should be in.

I do think there needs to be something done for Div 3, if its gonna have a lot of teams again next season. I admit that I don't quite understand how the swiss system works, but my feeling is that my team got a rather tough draw mid season. Abomination Nekos faced 2f, ROMA, and EXB back to back during the pre playoffs phase, and while there were some close maps, losing against 2f and barely losing to EXB, those matches were enough to reduce our playoffs chances to 0% by round 6, while some teams got easier draws in my opinion. I wonder if there's any seeding system in place, or if its just random? Were we meant to face other higher tier Div 3 teams? How are matchups decided when theres a lot of teams in the division? Because I thought that the toughest, most deciding matches were supposed to be saved for the end, like the playoffs. At least, thats how it is in more conventional tournaments. I guess this isn't really feedback so much as it is confusion. This could possibly fall under the admin transparency thing you mentioned.

bomp Right now we have a full roster, however many are busy with school and as such as playing less TF2. Main roster slots are open. Pls message me if interested in joining.