Feedback for Pyro unlocks

[Shounic 143]

Some questions to start discussion:

 

- Is it fun to play?

 

- Is it fun to play against?

 

- Does it add anything worthwhile to the Pyro class?

 

- Should we allow these unlocks in the next AFC?

 

You may also voice concerns with the off-class rule.

[frostic 29]

There may or may not be a reason why this group exists...

 

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ncpip

[Sh4dlr 2]

And also

This

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xcoo7M4tur0

[Shounic 143]

There may or may not be a reason why this group exists...

 

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ncpip

It's also the reason why we'll reintroduce our no excessive off classing rule.

[50m3b0dy 1]

To give some background information, the Degreaser and Flare Gun are whitelisted in ESEA, CEVO and ETF2L. ESEA and CEVO have some additional Pyro unlocks whitelisted, but I believe those do not add much to the game.

 

 

There may or may not be a reason why this group exists...

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ncpip

Yes, there is a reason why that group exists. However it exists not because of a class/unlock(s), but rather an individual's actions. Pyro in PUGs shouldn't be a thing, it ruins the game for others. People go into PUGs looking to play a standard game which follows the meta, allowing them to improve more effectively.

 

Pyro in matches though, or ANY other offclass, should not be frowned upon by the league. If a team wishes to play with a lineup that is not what is established to be the most effective, they are willingly putting themselves at a disadvantage. It is up to the other team to exploit the weaknesses of that lineup.

Edited January 24, 2015 by 50m3b0dy

[frostic 29]

Walao I joking only.

 

Ok on topic

Is it fun to play against? Yes.

Is it fun to play with? Yes. Unless obvee comes back.

Does it add anything worthwhile? Yes and No. Yes in the sense that we get to experiment what can be played and what can't (referring to unlocks) in AF. No in the sense that it MAY add on to unneccesary offclassing.

Should we add them to AFC 9? Not till you tested it through and through.

 

Is there a concrete offclass rule?

[Shounic 143]

We've had disucssions in the past about how exactly we will enforce it. We're interested in what people think is the fairest way to deal with clear trolls while keeping it fair for legitimate attempts.

 

Personally I think its a fair case if at least one person in your team vocalized an issue with it in mumble.

[frostic 29]

We've had disucssions in the past about how exactly we will enforce it. We're interested in what people think is the fairest way to deal with clear trolls while keeping it fair for legitimate attempts.

 

Personally I think its a fair case if at least one person in your team vocalized an issue with it in mumble.

Person A offclasses, not effective, team needs scout/soldier/demo/medic, person B vocalizes issue, person A doesn't stop offclassing, votekick system kicks (heh) in.

 

I'm just adding demo and medic because I've people offclass when they are playing them in asiafortress, in 2015.

[50m3b0dy 1]

- Is it fun to play? Yes.

- Is it fun to play against? This is highly subjective, some people may enjoy the added diversity while others may find it annoying.

- Does it add anything worthwhile to the Pyro class? Yes, and not just to the Pyro. Projectile classes, mainly the Soldier and Demo, will have additional things to keep in mind when playing against pyros, and it adds a small metagame of messing with firing patterns to prevent Pyros from predicting projectiles. Without the Degreaser, Pyros are forced to keep their flamethrower out most of the time, giving them no ability to deal with mid-range enemies. This makes Pyros an easy target, and reduces their viability. With the Degreaser, regardless of Shotgun/Flare Gun, the Pyro gains some utility at mid range. They are still easily outclassed by scouts, and stickies can be fired faster than airblast.

 

One thing to note is that the Degreaser is one of the few unlocks that dramatically changes a class' playstyle. In 6s, HL and just about any competitive format where the Degreaser is allowed, it is almost exclusively used by Pyros. Similarly to the Gunboats for roamers, it fits the role of the player, and comes with its own pros and cons. Contrary to the item description, under nodamagespread conditions the Degreaser actually has ~12-15% less damage than stock, and a -33% afterburn penalty instead of the -25% stated. The Degreaser forces Pyros to rely more on their other weapons to deal damage, while using the Degreaser mostly for airblasts. The stock flamethrower rewards wm1ing more, a technique with such a ridiculously low skill ceiling it shouldn't even be considered a skill. I believe that the stock flamethrower was added into the game as an easy weapon for players to pick up, while the Degreaser is designed as a flamethrower for more advanced users/techniques.

 

- Should we allow these unlocks in the next AFC? I believe it should, it will add to the game's diversity, add new strategies, and also gives the Pyro some offensive capabilities instead of being a purely defensive class. As mentioned earlier, it has been whitelisted in ESEA/CEVO/ETF2L for multiple seasons, and has been tried and tested there at the highest levels. It does not break the metagame, nor is it overpowered. It would be good to have more similar whitelists to other leagues, allowing us to have a smoother transition for international events such as i55/58 if we do go participate in those. Seeing as we are a seperate community from them I agree we should try it out and get accustomed to it before major leagues such as AFC9, but I do not see any reason why it should be blacklisted.

[Dream 26]

Lol Joel speaking strongly on this.... as expected, such dedication to his main class XD. 

 

Jokes aside

 

I think its a good idea to have it in, only thing i find people worrying about is pyros from last to last. So i think its really just more of changing the offclass rules abit. Once the rules are enforced, i think putting in more unlocks would be fine.