A Very Serious Community Decision

[Biotics 45]

On a serious note here.... I maybe considered Newbie in the 6s scene but I think i figure out why da heck the new players are trolling around so much. 

 

1. They like how the Vets over little things

2. Vets tend to curse at these newbies

 

And some ppl would say that the Vets have the right to do so cos the newbies arent listening or playing it right.... BUT NO!

 

Im sur everyone feels angry when the match isnt going ur way but why cant we all be a Saki and just say it nicely? A few pugs back, I think madman was scolding ppl (including me) for losing? If winning is so important den maybe tf2 isnt a game for u tbh... 

 

My point here is asking the Vets to be nicer to newbs since the generations below u guys have degenerated brains..... And if thats too much to ask for then this would be the downfall of AFL cos no one wants to be a nice guy.

 

THIS MESSAGE IS NOT MEANT TO MEAN ANYTHING ABOUT MADMAN! ITS JUST AN EXAMPLE! SO DONT GO THINKING DREAM HATES THIS GUY! I KNOW HOW MUCH HE HAS DONE FOR AFL! SO THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE. IT JUST SO HAPPEN THAT THIS HAPPENED TO ME. NOTHING MORE

 

MADMAN <3

 

p.s: If i get banned for this, i would say it was worth it.... this is a prob needed to be fixed

 

for new players change ur attitude also and recognize the Vets and stop trolling... even as new player for 6s i cant stand the amount of troll from you guys as well....

 

Peace out 

 

To be fair...

 

The vets have been much worse in the past FYI, and im speaking from the perspective of a newbie much earlier before you guys came.

 

And also to be fair

 

Im sur everyone feels angry when the match isnt going ur way but why cant we all be a Saki and just say it nicely? A few pugs back, I think madman was scolding ppl (including me) for losing? If winning is so important den maybe tf2 isnt a game for u tbh... 

 

Maybe its not tf2 being a game, but the fact that these people shldnt even be in the server? Like I said before its passworded for a reason, and if you actually had the motivation to learn, why would you let some vet and his stupid squabbling get over you so easily?

[Azazel 82]

Im sur everyone feels angry when the match isnt going ur way but why cant we all be a Saki and just say it nicely? A few pugs back, I think madman was scolding ppl (including me) for losing? If winning is so important den maybe tf2 isnt a game for u tbh... 

 

My point here is asking the Vets to be nicer to newbs since the generations below u guys have degenerated brains..... And if thats too much to ask for then this would be the downfall of AFL cos no one wants to be a nice guy.

 

Firstly, public tf2 is a place to fuck around.

 

I'm sure that it is close to unanimous that the gravity of winning or losing a round in cp_dustbowl is far less compared to our beloved 30 min round pugs.

 

If pugs were ALL THAT light-hearted and inconsequential then there would be no need for rules and regulations because its just a game right?

 

Just anyhow only.

 

So my point up to this point points towards the point that tf2 in a competitive setting (even in a public competitive setting) is NOT simply a casual game and there is a degree of seriousness involved.

 

Leave fucking around to public fuckfests.

 

Moving on...

 

Saying things nicely is like self-censorship.

 

I am truly, genuinely, authentically, ANGRY inside when S.S.U.B's are burdening my team when I am trying my best to win.

 

Are you asking all of AFL to have to take on a plastic, hypocritical, two-faced, phony approach to S.S.U.B's by self-censoring their seething anger and portraying that in a watered-down fashion in order to coddle the egos of new players whom are attempting to drive a car without hands?

 

This is the internet. Social niceties are a luxury. Life isn't fair.

 

Why can't everybody just be nice?

 

Try telling your screaming mother that after you spill milk on her favourite couch.

 

EVERYBODY will never be nice. SOMEBODY might be nice.

 

NICE is relative.

 

I have a theory.

 

EVERYBODY behaves according to their motivations.

 

People are "nice" for a reason.

 

The ones who are "nice" to you, are usually the ones who are the phoniest mothafuckas.

 

You are stupid if you believe "nice" at face value.

 

Appreciate the honesty, embrace the rage.

 

It's good for you.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Azazel

[Dream 26]

Firstly, public tf2 is a place to fuck around.

 

I'm sure that it is close to unanimous that the gravity of winning or losing a round in cp_dustbowl is far less compared to our beloved 30 min round pugs.

 

If pugs were ALL THAT light-hearted and inconsequential then there would be no need for rules and regulations because its just a game right?

 

Just anyhow only.

 

So my point up to this point points towards the point that tf2 in a competitive setting (even in a public competitive setting) is NOT simply a casual game and there is a degree of seriousness involved.

 

Leave fucking around to public fuckfests.

 

Moving on...

 

Saying things nicely is like self-censorship.

 

I am truly, genuinely, authentically, ANGRY inside when S.S.U.B's are burdening my team when I am trying my best to win.

 

Are you asking all of AFL to have to take on a plastic, hypocritical, two-faced, phony approach to S.S.U.B's by self-censoring their seething anger and portraying that in a watered-down fashion in order to coddle the egos of new players whom are attempting to drive a car without hands?

 

This is the internet. Social niceties are a luxury. Life isn't fair.

 

Why can't everybody just be nice?

 

Try telling your screaming mother that after you spill milk on her favourite couch.

 

EVERYBODY will never be nice. SOMEBODY might be nice.

 

NICE is relative.

 

I have a theory.

 

EVERYBODY behaves according to their motivations.

 

People are "nice" for a reason.

 

The ones who are "nice" to you, are usually the ones who are the phoniest mothafuckas.

 

You are stupid if you believe "nice" at face value.

 

Appreciate the honesty, embrace the rage.

 

It's good for you.

 

Guess that makes sense thanks Azazel

[Azazel 82]

Guess that makes sense thanks Azazel

 

what. that went down quick. ok thank you too.

[iridescentFUZZ 178]

Saying things nicely is like self-censorship.

What a terrible asset to have, that is. Woe unto him who is a practitioner of the art of self-censorship; how vile to lay eyes upon the sight of all the pitiful human relationships he will preserve by holding his tongue when appropriate.

 

I am truly, genuinely, authentically, ANGRY inside when S.S.U.B's are burdening my team when I am trying my best to win.

And there's your problem.

 

Are you asking all of AFL to have to take on a plastic, hypocritical, two-faced, phony approach to S.S.U.B's by self-censoring their seething anger and portraying that in a watered-down fashion in order to coddle the egos of new players whom are attempting to drive a car without hands?

Conversely, a community that displays unfettered rage for new-comers or hell, even people who have been around but haven't learned as fast as some may like, simply because it is incapable of displaying maturity and understanding is infinitely better, yes?

 

I have a theory.

EVERYBODY behaves according to their motivations.

People are "nice" for a reason.

The ones who are "nice" to you, are usually the ones who are the phoniest mothafuckas.

You are stupid if you believe "nice" at face value.

Appreciate the honesty, embrace the rage.

It's good for you.

I had no idea you majored in psychology! However, as someone who is able to trace his distant lineage to the late Carl Jung, and taking great pride in family tradition I do consider myself a psychiatrist of sorts.

 

My theory is that anger is a destructive force when allowed to run free as you so frivolously suggest. The anger of which you speak is akin to a road rage; all full of gusto and hot-blooded naivete, but sorely lacking in any direction, purpose or positive outlet. The only anger worth expressing is as distant from the anger of which you speak as the trees are from the stars; it is an anger that is hardly worth being referred to as such since it lasts mere moments before being transformed into something far greater; resolve.

 

Even the gentlest and greatest of human beings experience, or have experienced anger, hatred, bitterness and resentment. Their legacy will live on not because they were ever-ready to spit vitriol like a swiftly uncoiling cobra, but because they conquered their inner rage and channeled it into a drive that often changed the world.

As your resident hippy and bearded man, I exhort you to throw off your shackles of hatred and discover what it truly means to possess an unshakeable resolve.

 

From my scientific leanings, allow me to leave you with a quotation attributed to the late, great Albert Einstein; one in which he states, "Anger dwells only in the heart of fools".

[Caldoran 146]

What a Fuzzkill.

[Terywj 2]

Forward: I am a North American player who is currently residing in Hong Kong. I have a year's worth of experience in North American TF2 - through ESEA and #tf2.pug.na, #tf2mix.

 

Since I'm here, I planned on participating in some AsiaFortress events. So, I hopped into some of the AsiaFortress pug to see what was happening over here in this scene.

 

You really need Mumble. It's harder because this is the system that you guys over here are used to, and there's more possibility that there will be players who cannot speak English, but these pugs are quite literally shitfests. Perhaps even with Mumble they could still be shitfests because of teams or whatever, but at least a Mumble provides a sense of communication - at least someone will talk or try to talk. These are just TF2 Lobbies with an integrated picking system otherwise. I've heard that there are other pug groups active in AsiaFortress which do have Mumble as a "requirement," and you'll find that if you start having teams in Mumble for these pugs the quality will improve if but a little bit (because there will be tryhard players like me who like to comm even in pugs). The American pug systems all have Mumble usage and it's excellent for showing new players a glimpse of what being on a real team will be like. From what I gather, these pugs seem like the only way to get a first step into the community, and it's a terrible foot-breaking step the way it is now.

 

Just offering my thoughts, as both a newcomer to AsiaFortress and someone who has experienced a different continent's TF2.

[Azazel 82]

Conversely, a community that displays unfettered rage for new-comers or hell, even people who have been around but haven't learned as fast as some may like, simply because it is incapable of displaying maturity and understanding is infinitely better, yes?

 

While I am not encouraging "unfettered rage" at the slightest of events, I am pointing out that deserved rage from experienced players will exist and it comes down to how those whom are raged at deal with said rage.

 

How anybody is going to achieve a greater maturity and understanding among veteran players in phony niceness, or genuine niceness, is unfathomable to me.

I had no idea you majored in psychology! However, as someone who is able to trace his distant lineage to the late Carl Jung, and taking great pride in family tradition I do consider myself a psychiatrist of sorts.

 

Perhaps some sessions with Fuzz on the couch will help create a friendly, rage-free community?

 

While I remain skeptical of the possibility, if this is achieved by Fuzz the self-proclaimed psychiatrist of sorts I would be genuinely happy.

 

My theory is that anger is a destructive force when allowed to run free as you so frivolously suggest. The anger of which you speak is akin to a road rage; all full of gusto and hot-blooded naivete, but sorely lacking in any direction, purpose or positive outlet. The only anger worth expressing is as distant from the anger of which you speak as the trees are from the stars; it is an anger that is hardly worth being referred to as such since it lasts mere moments before being transformed into something far greater; resolve.

 

Even the gentlest and greatest of human beings experience, or have experienced anger, hatred, bitterness and resentment. Their legacy will live on not because they were ever-ready to spit vitriol like a swiftly uncoiling cobra, but because they conquered their inner rage and channeled it into a drive that often changed the world.

As your resident hippy and bearded man, I exhort you to throw off your shackles of hatred and discover what it truly means to possess an unshakeable resolve.

 

Also, while I'm sure we all appreciate the very informative explanation of how anger can be transformed into resolve...

 

I ponder about its relevance to the discussion of our community and the disparity between the veterans, newbies, and the in-betweens.

 

I don't disagree, but I ponder.

 

First of all, I'm not sure the expression of any emotion is based on the "worth" of said expression.

 

I don't think emotions can be switched off because said emotion is not "worth" being expressed.

 

Given your premise of anger and its worth of expression... I wonder if you ascribe your value of worthy anger to everybody else's value of worthy anger as though you truly understand how everybody in the community values their personal, individual, experienced emotion of anger.

 

You must really be more than just a self-proclaimed psychiatrist... but a true-born psychic!

 

 

I really hate to burst your bubble, but your call for anger to be deemed unworthy and bottled up is truly difficult to not consider idealistic.

 

To keep this relevant...let me attempt to find a direct correlation to our situation...

 

So... veterans who feel greatly frustrated by burdening new players on their pug team should..... "throw off their shackles of hatred(and anger) and discover what it truly means to possess an unshakeable resolve" to......

 

Change the world?

 

Impact the universe?

 

Among all these vague references to somehow inspire the changing of the world through an anger-transformed UNSHAKEABLE resolve... I am still somewhat perplexed.

 

Change the community maybe?

 

Oh I get it now... asiafortress as a community should channel all the rage from witnessing new players ruin pugs into an UNSHAKEABLE resolve of ???????????? that will magically transform everybody into ponies.

 

 

Meh.

 

I'm a realist.

 

Speaking from the perspective of the not-really veteran yet still quite noob... 

 

It is infinitely easier to not expect people to be nice to you because nobody owes you ANYTHING.

 

While it may be hard to swallow negative criticism and squeeze the positive out of it, that is the best way new players can deal with veteran rage.

 

The community can always be hateful, angry, and even if Fuzz magically creates a friendlier community with his beard, it won't matter if you don't let it affect you negatively.

 

This is my experience and it may or may not help you.

 

It is veteran rage that forced me to practice more and play with more common sense.

 

It is also veteran rage that keeps me accountable for what decisions I make in a pug where everybody is trying to play a role in winning the round.

 

Squeeze the positives out of veteran rage.

 

Let them rage because you can't stop what they feel or say, but YOU have to buck up and show them later that you have improved.

 

Remember, that with the +1 list in effect, there is no way anyone can stop you from pugging.

 

The only person stopping you from pugging is yourself.

 

That is MY theory.

 

So, allow me to reiterate.

 

If you are burdening a team trying to legitimately win, you deserve the rage coming your way.

 

If no one rages at you, consider it a bonus because you should be raging at yourself for not contributing.

 

Embrace said rage and, by fuzz's logic which I may prove useful in this situation, get angry and transform that into resolve and improve like a muthafucka to change your badness into goodness.

 

Think of it this way.

 

If you performed badly, you performed badly.

 

Don't blame people for pointing it out.

 

Blame yourself for performing badly, and work on it.

 

I do not have anything clever to quote from Einstein to make myself seem more credible than my own narcissistic opinions, so I leave you with a quote of myself

 

 

Appreciate the honesty, embrace the rage.

 

It's good for you.

 

p.s. I always fight duels with samurai swords. As per your guidance I congratulate myself after every HAIYA!

Edited January 8, 2014 by Azazel