Post Ham Era

[thelousy 3]

No idea how to really call this thread subject, but more importantly Ham's servers are officially down for a few days now (and forever to those who still don't realise that).

 

I was thinking of a way to "help" rejuvenate the azn community (okay maybe the SG/MY community really), we should really promote this site as a forum to discuss tf2 development in SEA/Asia (or what is left of it). This way they have somewhere to go to regarding the revival of SH's servers (under a different host of course if it actually happens) and at the same time get influenced by y'all in attempting pugs and eventually scrims.

 

But this of course requires the current community's assistance to do so. So whenever you guys enter public servers with azn players, try to promote this site if possible.

 

This is not a perfect solution, but something that is worth looking at.

[deliaren 3]

Same old corporations.

 

No profit + Loss = useless

This is why those crazy people talk about global warming.

 

TF2 is dead

 

Too little fresh faces = no replacements when people go

95% of the time when a pubber comes

Pubbers trollin > puggers bullyin > pubbers rquitting > go back to pub

 

not that the puggers did not do anything wrong but because it gets annoying when pubbers don't read rules, and don't pay attention to mm1. (and this includes me and certainly all of you reading this post)

 

and when they start trollin

 

puggers start raging. (and bullying)

 

then pubbers rq the game and go back to pub.

 

 

I was thinking of a way to "help" rejuvenate the azn community (okay maybe the SG/MY community really)' date=' we should really promote this site as a forum to discuss tf2 development in SEA/Asia (or what is left of it). This way they have somewhere to go to regarding the revival of SH's servers (under a different host of course if it actually happens) and at the same time get influenced by y'all in attempting pugs and eventually scrims.[/quote']

 

a real possible attempt would be making a pug full of pubs and teaching them what the heck is a pug and explaining to them in details.

 

however it seems unlikely in the future

 

 

the end of long boring wall of text

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thelousy 3]

We all know the "hard truth" which is why it is not the perfect solution.

[coldblood 0]

Apologies if I go off-topic but I felt the need to put some proper context;

 

A rejuvenation at this point, can only be brought on by a fundamental policy change. There are many levels to this discussion, actually;

 

For starters, if one wants a big community, he/she would have to be conducive to attract newer players and have a supportive environment so they stick around after they become a part and not drift away. In most cases, a game's longevity is associated with the community that backs it up.

 

Now, for the most part, that holds true - however, in TF2's case, people are quick to write off it as dead. Whereas the reality is, Valve won't let it die. As a product, it's extremely profitable and the competitive community, while thinks they are the most important and center of attention, account for a minority of players that play the game. Whether TF2 lives or dies is not dependent upon the 6v6 matches, it's dependent upon the 12v12 2fort matches that most of us frown upon. At the end of the day, that community of KGB Heavies and Huntsman Snipers are what carry and sustain players, not us.

 

Ofcourse, we'd like things to be different. Selfishly so, ofcourse. The problem with the Asian community, in the present time anyway, is the utter lack of initiative by players. People want more players and a larger scene yet seldom do anything about it. More disgusting is the fact that is the incestuous nature that is common place. Honestly, linking people to this website won't bring much luck. I mean, just a gander at the forums and most threads are incredibly off-topic and derailed as shit.

 

Look, I get that trolling over the Internet is the "in" thing. Unfortunately, you do so at the expense of a game you play and hurt a community in the process. Take a cue from OZFortress or ETF2L, trolling and mucking about is part of gaming culture but please do so within an acceptable limit where you're not intimidating or down right condescending to new players and/or teams.

 

The end result of the years of trolling/lack of initiative and such have left just a few handful of players that are still around and still bother to do anything. Nnnta has been one such person and I honestly feel the situation is a bit tragic as you can see the guy wants to do so much yet he is practically never helped or supported in the way that is appropriate and apt.

 

But anyway, what can be done to help the scene? Well, a couple of things -

 

- Firstly, if there are new pickup servers that are going to be setup, then ensure that instead of going, say for a 25 player server, it's more efficient and logical to have 2x12p servers. There's little sense in having such large capacity servers for competitive purpose. What is the case is, people (usually experienced players) want to stack and play. They half heartedly pick teams and when some newbie player comes and doesn't play to their impossible standards, he's exiled and never picked again. It's just makes more sense to let the newbie players play against players of their own skill level as they're starting out and have them become comfortable with the mechanics of 6v6. 6v6, if you are new, is intimidating and difficult for someone starting out.

 

- Get the right people involved. Managing a community is a difficult task, take a leap of faith and involve different people from different backgrounds. Unless someone is blatantly abusing power, the more contributors, the merrier. This is especially in the case of server admins, whenever they're needed.

 

- There are always going to be douchebags and nice people in the community. It's upto you to decide which one you'd like to be.

 

- AsiaFortress has always been abysmal at promoting itself. Be it for AFL or anything else. This is a pretty serious issue. Contrary to popular belief, International players are impressed and interested in our tiny scene, but you have to give them the proper platform and medium. Proper utilisation of open writing platforms such as VanillaTF2 etc. is quite necessary and does a lot to promote and support the scene. Remember, not all progress is transparent.

 

- Get inspired. Players like Torden, CB, valk, Moose etc have done a lot to promote and harbor their respective gaming scenes. A thing like this is always going to be a labor of love and a thankless job. But people still do it because they are fueled by passion and love for the game(s) they play.

 

Now, while all this is dandy, living in Asia with high bandwidth and peering prices means we'll always have to deal with a substantially low number of servers. Furthermore, with the diversity involved in-terms of languages, communication is never going to be an easy task. Lastly, remember, not everyone wants to play competitively. Some simply aren't interested while others can't commit the time for it. Do what you can do, to the best of your ability and everything else will work itself out.

 

As is said, If you take care of the small things, the big things take care of themselves.

[kigbariom 6]

A REAL solution, is to stop this makeshift pug system where we have a list of make believe rules.

 

We need to obviously get someone who can provide servers, but more importantly, have this site get a PR team to talk with the guys behind TF2 Lobby to get Asia added as one of the regions.

 

TF2 lobby can literally create a whole new community, and create 2 distinct levels between pugs and scrims.

[coldblood 0]

A REAL solution' date=' is to stop this makeshift pug system where we have a list of make believe rules.

 

We need to obviously get someone who can provide servers, but more importantly, have this site get a PR team to talk with the guys behind TF2 Lobby to get Asia added as one of the regions.

 

TF2 lobby can literally create a whole new community, and create 2 distinct levels between pugs and scrims.

[/quote']

There's nothing really wrong with the pickup system. You're blaming it for the faults and behavior of the players. The captaining system is used by pug.na - the only difference is that it's IRC based and ours is server based.

 

The inconsistent picking and stacking can be rectified by having multiple servers so the experienced players are not burdened by players that are learning the ropes and conversely, the newer players have a more relaxed environment to learn and appreciate the game.

 

Rules and unlocks can easily be enforced by competent admins and whitelists.

 

As for TF2Lobby, it's neat and nice but unless you're able to obtain RCON for servers, it's useless. They don't need to add Asia as it automatically detects IPs and showcases their location. Besides, Asia does not have a designated flag, it's made up of many different countries. It'd be a hairy and redundant task, classifying them.

 

Lobbies are amazing in theory, yet their execution relies on different and difficult to control, variables. Most people wouldn't play them and with TF2Lobby, unless it's password protected, the chances of high-ping random players joining and ruining it are high. And if one is forced to be so conservative (PW protected lobby and moderation) - it just defeats the purpose of lobbies in the first place.

 

On the other hand, it'd give more international exposure. Though it can be both good and bad (as mentioned above) - I'd personally love the traditional IRC system with the pug bot, but with people being so new and inexperienced in-terms of IRC here and the complications involved, a pug bot would bomb pretty bad.

 

Look, the reality is, you can have different platforms and mediums of approaching pugs but unless the players themselves show sincerity and dedication and play properly, it wouldn't do anything.

[kigbariom 6]

Kigbariom

Asiafortress

Paper One Rough Draft

 

Thesis: CB's two posts illustrate possible solutions to the "Post Ham Era" crisis but fail to mention key points and in some cases contradict each other. A new medium should be tested and used because it could lead to advancement of the community.

 

In the first post CB mentioned a new medium for AsiaFortress. "International players are impressed and interested in our tiny scene, but you have to give them the proper platform and medium" (CB, 2011). The key terms are "platform" and "medium" which are currently represented by the Eclub or former StarHub servers. There is no specific UI or independent platform to support the organization of pugs. As mentioned in my previous post, the "TF2 Lobby" system provides this "platform" and "medium" in a popular and easy to use way. TF2 lobby has shown lots of dedication to maintaining its website as well as tracking stats and updating their system. It does have some negative connotation attributed towards it but again, it is a decent medium for TF2. StarHub being down has a detrimental effect on our community but also poses an opportunity to create new servers which do provide and R-CON password and lobby support. TF2 lobby actually does not fully support Asia because if an Asian server is used it is detected as a EU server from my personal experience with the platform. If what TF2 Lobby offers does not interest everyone we can use alternate methods like #tf2.pug.na which provides a similar service. You mentioned that our system was a "captain" system like #tf2.pug.na which is correct but again the only medium is through the server itself. In my opinion I think the IRC system could do even better than TF2 Lobby despite its UI and lack of accessibility. "You can have different platforms and mediums of approaching pugs but unless the players themselves show sincerity and dedication and play properly, it wouldn't do anything" (CB, 2011). This is a different medium and it does take sincerity and dedication like any platform. If the dedication is attributed to making a new system with an independent client then it could help the community grow once it is easier to approach.

 

Yes, it will take up servers, and yes it may seem inaccessible unlike it used to be but this is how all of the other countries organize their pick up games. We are in an important transition phase as a community so the only thing that would hold us back is if we don't move forward. We may need players to test each system, we may need to take a few stabs at it, but it will benefit the community. It brings with it the benefit of possible stat tracking and the chance to make a distinction between the skill divisions in the Asia community. It just comes down to servers and change. So we should try to break out from our PUG system because right now is our chance. This sounds like a total DB response since I was so lame about the formatting but, you know I love you CB. I just like to have fun.

 

TL;DR: Someone pay for some servers

 

[sam 1]

last night was a good leap towards breaking the community even more, gj!

[Summer 180]

last night was a good leap towards breaking the community even more' date=' gj!

[/quote']

 

?

 

[deliaren 3]

Kigbariom

Asiafortress

Paper One Rough Draft

 

Thesis: CB's two posts illustrate possible solutions to the "Post Ham Era" crisis but fail to mention key points and in some cases contradict each other. A new medium should be tested and used because it could lead to advancement of the community.

 

In the first post CB mentioned a new medium for AsiaFortress. "International players are impressed and interested in our tiny scene' date=' but you have to give them the proper platform and medium" (CB, 2011). The key terms are "platform" and "medium" which are currently represented by the Eclub or former StarHub servers. There is no specific UI or independent platform to support the organization of pugs. As mentioned in my previous post, the "TF2 Lobby" system provides this "platform" and "medium" in a popular and easy to use way. TF2 lobby has shown lots of dedication to maintaining its website as well as tracking stats and updating their system. It does have some negative connotation attributed towards it but again, it is a decent medium for TF2. StarHub being down has a detrimental effect on our community but also poses an opportunity to create new servers which do provide and R-CON password and lobby support. TF2 lobby actually does not fully support Asia because if an Asian server is used it is detected as a EU server from my personal experience with the platform. If what TF2 Lobby offers does not interest everyone we can use alternate methods like #tf2.pug.na which provides a similar service. You mentioned that our system was a "captain" system like #tf2.pug.na which is correct but again the only medium is through the server itself. In my opinion I think the IRC system could do even better than TF2 Lobby despite its UI and lack of accessibility. "You can have different platforms and mediums of approaching pugs but unless the players themselves show sincerity and dedication and play properly, it wouldn't do anything" (CB, 2011). This is a different medium and it does take sincerity and dedication like any platform. If the dedication is attributed to making a new system with an independent client then it could help the community grow once it is easier to approach.

 

Yes, it will take up servers, and yes it may seem inaccessible unlike it used to be but this is how all of the other countries organize their pick up games. We are in an important transition phase as a community so the only thing that would hold us back is if we don't move forward. We may need players to test each system, we may need to take a few stabs at it, but it will benefit the community. It brings with it the benefit of possible stat tracking and the chance to make a distinction between the skill divisions in the Asia community. It just comes down to servers and change. So we should try to break out from our PUG system because right now is our chance. This sounds like a total DB response since I was so lame about the formatting but, you know I love you CB. I just like to have fun.

 

TL;DR: Someone pay for some servers

 

[/quote']

 

This implementation is easier said then done

 

1. Not many people play using tf2lobby and would just make more people not bother about playing pugs. (people lazy to register etc.)

 

2. IRC system is very hard to implement and still not many people are even on the IRC on asiafortress.com

 

3. "They half heartedly pick teams and when some newbie player comes and doesn't play to their impossible standards, he's exiled and never picked again." - CB

 

Yet some don't bother reading the rules and ONCE EVERYONE RUNS TO SPEC THEY GET LEFT AS MEDIC AND QQ AND TROLL THE ENTIRE FUCKING TEAM.

 

Thats how elitist we are.

 

Why bother spamming these binds "Once each team has 6 players, all players must go to spec. The last two players to spec will face off each other as medic, and see who will choose first. If there are players on the list you must choose them first until they are gone."

 

when they don't get read.

 

 

4. "-is the utter lack of initiative by players." - CB

 

Initiative has been done by most of the community (remember AFL2). This whole AFL business have been run by the players themselves.

 

from hcaz -> spammah -> nmy -> mdma -> acel -> nata

 

all are players.

 

AFL was dead before the community decided to intervene. (again AFL2)

The lack of appreciation and no one to step up is the reason we are in this mess and because there is nothing else left to play for.

 

Just skeleton of the game remains.

 

Good bye tf2 and glhf.

[coldblood 0]

Kigbariom

Asiafortress

Paper One Rough Draft

 

Thesis: CB's two posts illustrate possible solutions to the "Post Ham Era" crisis but fail to mention key points and in some cases contradict each other. A new medium should be tested and used because it could lead to advancement of the community.

 

In the first post CB mentioned a new medium for AsiaFortress. "International players are impressed and interested in our tiny scene' date=' but you have to give them the proper platform and medium" (CB, 2011). The key terms are "platform" and "medium" which are currently represented by the Eclub or former StarHub servers. There is no specific UI or independent platform to support the organization of pugs. As mentioned in my previous post, the "TF2 Lobby" system provides this "platform" and "medium" in a popular and easy to use way. TF2 lobby has shown lots of dedication to maintaining its website as well as tracking stats and updating their system. It does have some negative connotation attributed towards it but again, it is a decent medium for TF2. StarHub being down has a detrimental effect on our community but also poses an opportunity to create new servers which do provide and R-CON password and lobby support. TF2 lobby actually does not fully support Asia because if an Asian server is used it is detected as a EU server from my personal experience with the platform. If what TF2 Lobby offers does not interest everyone we can use alternate methods like #tf2.pug.na which provides a similar service. You mentioned that our system was a "captain" system like #tf2.pug.na which is correct but again the only medium is through the server itself. In my opinion I think the IRC system could do even better than TF2 Lobby despite its UI and lack of accessibility. "You can have different platforms and mediums of approaching pugs but unless the players themselves show sincerity and dedication and play properly, it wouldn't do anything" (CB, 2011). This is a different medium and it does take sincerity and dedication like any platform. If the dedication is attributed to making a new system with an independent client then it could help the community grow once it is easier to approach.

 

Yes, it will take up servers, and yes it may seem inaccessible unlike it used to be but this is how all of the other countries organize their pick up games. We are in an important transition phase as a community so the only thing that would hold us back is if we don't move forward. We may need players to test each system, we may need to take a few stabs at it, but it will benefit the community. It brings with it the benefit of possible stat tracking and the chance to make a distinction between the skill divisions in the Asia community. It just comes down to servers and change. So we should try to break out from our PUG system because right now is our chance. This sounds like a total DB response since I was so lame about the formatting but, you know I love you CB. I just like to have fun.

 

TL;DR: Someone pay for some servers

 

[/quote']

Nice....formatting Kig. Joy to read.

 

Anyway, yes my posts do contain things that are contradictory. Honestly, I get your infatuation with TF2lobby, I just wished you understood my ambivalence towards it.

 

It's a nice site, definitely. It's a work of art and offers many-a-things that are unique and helpful. At the same time, I'd argue that it's better to refine the existing system for migration's sake than to jump onto a new one. I get why you advocate it though, I did point out the difficulties and indeed, I'd happily support it if others do too.

 

As for IRC. Coding a pugbot is not an easy task. Furthermore, even if you manage to get someone to program it, weed out the kinks and bugs and put it online, the process is so complicated (for a normal newbie public player) that most would show apathy towards it.

 

Yeah, we do require sincerity and all that jazz, but that'll likely come from the same old pool of players as the method [iRC] would be too intimidating for most new comers. It'll basically be the same 25 people playing pickups, using IRC instead of just spectating in the server.

 

Again, don't mistake me for a person that doesn't like change. Understand my apprehension comes from having a realistic point of view. I am merely pointing out the problems that the system may suffer in-terms of it's implementation and execution.

 

Anyway, get me RCON to servers and I'll get in touch with Mangy or Floor and sort things out.

 

 

Initiative has been done by most of the community (remember AFL2). This whole AFL business have been run by the players themselves.

 

from hcaz -> spammah -> nmy -> mdma -> acel -> nata

 

all are players.

You can take initiative but unless you're not consistent or lack the foresight to give it shape, nurture it and see it through, it'll fall flat on it's face. Consistency is the golden term of life, it applies everywhere and a video game league is no exception. As I said, getting the right people is more important than getting those who appear to be right.

 

The lack of appreciation and no one to step up is the reason we are in this mess and because there is nothing else left to play for.

 

Just skeleton of the game remains.

 

Good bye tf2 and glhf.

You're sounding like a broken record. Honestly, I get that you're giving us some hindsight but this thread is hardly about "See I told you so" - it's about reform and change. And neither will happen if you loop "gg, its dead" - and honestly, if you do, in your heart of hearts, feel the game lacks the oomph or if you have lost appreciation for it, then okay.

 

I am not trying to sound like a condescending jerk, I just don't see how repeating something of that nature, is productive. Especially in an environment where the OP was suggesting ways to reform and resuscitate the community. Past is past, let sleeping dogs lie. Focus on the future instead of obsessing over what has come and gone. Learn from the mistakes, as they say.

 

I understand you're annoyed by the people (newbies) that seemingly spoil the pickups, but at the same time, its better to look for a solution in regards to it. e.g., lobbies and/or multiple pickup servers with small player cap (12-14 etc)

[spammah 103]

You can take initiative but unless you're not consistent or lack the foresight to give it shape' date=' nurture it and see it through, it'll fall flat on it's face. Consistency is the golden term of life, it applies everywhere and a video game league is no exception. As I said, getting the right people is more important than getting those who appear to be right. [/quote']

 

Man.

 

I'm just going to ignore your comments made out of ignorance and do something that I think we all agree should have been done before. Do what's best for the community. Take the initiative. Set a standard for the Asian scene. Set a mode of consistency for the community. And all that.

 

coldblood - I VOTE YOU TO BE OUR NEW CHIEF OF STAFF! TO LEAD THE MASSES TO A BETTER FUTURE! TO BE THE NEXT LEE KUAN YEW!

 

ALL HAIL OUR NEW LEADER FOR ASIAFORTRESS! COLDBLOOOOOOD!

 

Take up the chant guys.

 

 

[hcaz 33]

Wow this coldblood guy must really have a clue!!

 

Let's see if you're as good as writing essays on forums and tf2 blogs as managing a tf2 competitive community.

 

I think you have no fucking clue but hey, I might just be wrong.

 

Let's see what you got COLDBLOOD.

 

YOUR MOVE

[ham 0]

i lol'ed and

 

 

cluelessness all around. more cluelessness in the forseeable future

[LToro 2]

sam what's your post about

[thelousy 3]

 

Thats how elitist we are.

 

 

Yay for knowing what is wrong and but doing nothing about it. Just like a certain political party that causes lightning storms.

 

 

Well CB, to put it in a nicer way. Behind the scenes, there are plenty of shit that has been going on, what have actually attempted some of the things that you mentioned. But the azn community simply loves to implode on itself although there are some who do actually try to keep it floating. If you think you could plug the hole in the sinking ship, you could volunteer your time and resources to help float what remains of it.

[sam 1]

We need more trolls at this point of time.....

[Summer 180]

Everyone just needs to do their bit, whether it be admin-ing or just playing the game

[ham 0]

i lol'ed triply hard when i saw this. i wonder what shithub will think about that link. ahahahaha

 

http://nogamenotalk.com/2011/05/25/e-club-malaysia-upgrades-game-servers-will-beat-starhub-to-the-punch/

[Summer 180]

so basically starhub and e-club have merged?

[kushhh 22]

starhub raped idiet

[Ratsyc 0]

Interesting read.

 

Should have read this at work today, would have killed my boredom.

 

 

i lol'ed triply hard when i saw this. i wonder what shithub will think about that link. ahahahaha

 

http://nogamenotalk.com/2011/05/25/e-club-malaysia-upgrades-game-servers-will-beat-starhub-to-the-punch/

Awww. they took down the post.

[ham 0]

You missed much lol. ahahhaahah. cant stop laffing at the stunt that was attempted. excuse me while i go laff somemore. ahahaha lol

[spammah 103]

DON'T LAUGH! I'LL POKE YOU WITH THE SCHTICK IN MY PANTS!

[Madman 185]

tl;dr

 

and my house isn't even finished, what the fuck are you waiting for?